1 00:00:02,760 --> 00:00:06,030 John Greenewald: When it comes to government secrets, and 2 00:00:06,030 --> 00:00:11,100 especially those about UFOs, the black ball primarily focuses on 3 00:00:11,100 --> 00:00:14,700 the American government and their connection to one of the 4 00:00:14,700 --> 00:00:18,960 biggest mysteries of our time. But what about other countries? 5 00:00:19,350 --> 00:00:21,360 Let's say like Australia. 6 00:00:22,559 --> 00:00:26,879 Grant Lavac: This briefing paper that was created and shared, 7 00:00:26,910 --> 00:00:30,600 John Greenewald: my guest today is Grant Lovak. And he used the 8 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,720 Australian Freedom of Information Act to access 9 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:39,180 records about UFOs and UAP Table of Contents. But what really is 10 00:00:39,180 --> 00:00:41,160 going on down under Why 11 00:00:41,160 --> 00:00:44,160 Grant Lavac: is Australia not taking the subject seriously, 12 00:00:44,160 --> 00:00:45,330 when our US ally 13 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:48,150 John Greenewald: is Grant is about to step into the vault, 14 00:00:48,150 --> 00:00:52,530 they look to tell us all i legislation, stay tuned, you're 15 00:00:52,530 --> 00:00:55,410 about to journey inside the black vault. 16 00:01:22,049 --> 00:01:24,629 That's right, everybody. As always, thank you so much for 17 00:01:24,629 --> 00:01:28,289 tuning in and making this your live stream or your podcast of 18 00:01:28,289 --> 00:01:30,869 choice. I'm your host, John Greenewald, Jr, owner and 19 00:01:30,869 --> 00:01:34,439 founder and creator of the black vault.com. And I'm pretty 20 00:01:34,439 --> 00:01:37,109 excited about this show because I wanted to do it for a while. 21 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:39,899 As most of you know, most of you watch this channel. You know, I 22 00:01:39,899 --> 00:01:42,899 talk about the American government and their connection 23 00:01:42,899 --> 00:01:47,399 to UFOs and UAP. All the time. It is one of my personal 24 00:01:47,399 --> 00:01:49,739 fascinations even though I deal with pretty much every 25 00:01:49,739 --> 00:01:53,969 government secret in the book. But I don't really deal with a 26 00:01:53,969 --> 00:01:57,239 whole lot of other countries. But I get that question a lot. 27 00:01:57,629 --> 00:02:01,679 And my guest today, Grant Lovak. Thank you, grant for joining me 28 00:02:01,679 --> 00:02:05,519 all the way from Australia. Thank you. Thank you for being 29 00:02:05,519 --> 00:02:05,909 here. 30 00:02:06,629 --> 00:02:08,489 Grant Lavac: You're very welcome. Look, I appreciate you 31 00:02:08,489 --> 00:02:12,119 giving me some of your time late in the day. I'm it's my morning 32 00:02:12,119 --> 00:02:15,419 here. So greetings from the future. Disclosure hasn't 33 00:02:15,419 --> 00:02:19,319 happened yet. But you never know what will happen by end of day. 34 00:02:19,319 --> 00:02:21,809 But now it's great to be with you. I appreciate you inviting 35 00:02:21,809 --> 00:02:22,109 me on. 36 00:02:22,380 --> 00:02:24,390 John Greenewald: Absolutely. If disclosure does ever happen, 37 00:02:24,390 --> 00:02:28,200 give me a call first. That way I can be the psychic in America to 38 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:31,320 predict that it happens. So thank you for that. But for 39 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,020 those those who are watching, if you haven't figured it out, 40 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:37,140 Grant being from Australia, we're going to talk about the 41 00:02:37,140 --> 00:02:41,820 Australian Government what their connection is or isn't to UAP 42 00:02:41,820 --> 00:02:46,200 and UFOs. And the reason grant and to the audience as well why 43 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,110 I love these types of interviews is to be blatantly honest with 44 00:02:49,110 --> 00:02:52,620 you, I am 100% ignorant about what we are going to be talking 45 00:02:52,620 --> 00:02:56,910 about. And and I really I've seen your posts, which is why I 46 00:02:56,910 --> 00:02:59,820 reached out to you. We've been friends beyond that. But I saw 47 00:02:59,820 --> 00:03:03,000 your posts because you have looked into the Australian 48 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,970 Government and again, their connection to this. So before we 49 00:03:05,970 --> 00:03:09,000 get into that, give the audience a little bit of background about 50 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:13,980 who grant is and how you got into researching the Australian 51 00:03:13,980 --> 00:03:15,450 Government's connection to UFOs. 52 00:03:16,230 --> 00:03:18,900 Grant Lavac: Yeah, so I mean, I always have kind of positioned 53 00:03:18,900 --> 00:03:22,560 myself as just an ordinary bloke that kind of believes in 54 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,070 extraordinary things with a healthy degree of skepticism and 55 00:03:26,070 --> 00:03:28,530 an open mind thrown in there together for good measure. And 56 00:03:28,740 --> 00:03:32,190 I've been fascinated by this topic ever since I was I was a 57 00:03:32,190 --> 00:03:35,970 young kid on 43 years of age now. So growing up as a young 58 00:03:35,970 --> 00:03:40,620 boy in the 80s. My dad, when I was about eight or nine years of 59 00:03:40,620 --> 00:03:44,280 age took me to a photo exhibition, which was a UFO 60 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:48,300 photo exhibition. And I had never been to any photo 61 00:03:48,300 --> 00:03:52,350 exhibition before and I was just completely mesmerized by these 62 00:03:52,350 --> 00:03:57,150 big black and white blow ups of a famous sightings throughout 63 00:03:57,150 --> 00:04:00,180 the exhibition and one of the photos was the McMinnville photo 64 00:04:00,420 --> 00:04:03,990 from the 50s and I remember just staring at that photo for what 65 00:04:04,350 --> 00:04:08,850 felt like a good 1015 minutes just losing myself in what it 66 00:04:08,850 --> 00:04:12,120 would have been like to take that photo beyond that you know 67 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:16,200 that farm that ranches farm and and see with both fascination 68 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:18,870 and terror what what would be in front of you. So that was kind 69 00:04:18,870 --> 00:04:22,980 of what intrigued me from a young age and then growing up as 70 00:04:22,980 --> 00:04:26,970 a teenager Obviously, every Wednesday night at 9pm I'd be 71 00:04:26,970 --> 00:04:31,290 watching The X Files and reading books and watching watching 72 00:04:31,290 --> 00:04:35,640 shows on on documentaries going up but it really wasn't until 73 00:04:35,700 --> 00:04:40,260 2017 Like for I guess a lot of people when the The New York 74 00:04:40,260 --> 00:04:43,860 Times articles came out that that really piqued my interest 75 00:04:43,860 --> 00:04:46,950 and kind of reinvigorate reinvigorated my, my appetite 76 00:04:46,950 --> 00:04:51,780 for it. So my interest has kind of ebbed and flowed a little bit 77 00:04:52,110 --> 00:04:55,710 over the years and I actually have to thank you directly, 78 00:04:55,710 --> 00:05:00,120 John, because when COVID started, I would I was 79 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:04,140 introduced to Spotify by a friend of mine and I somehow 80 00:05:04,170 --> 00:05:07,680 ended up on listening to Jimmy church and I was listening quite 81 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:12,300 regularly and you were one of the guests. And so listening to 82 00:05:12,300 --> 00:05:17,790 you speak about your history and experience with trying to hold 83 00:05:17,790 --> 00:05:21,300 government to account and transparent and going through 84 00:05:21,300 --> 00:05:24,780 the FOIA process that really got me quite interested in. Well, 85 00:05:24,810 --> 00:05:29,340 this is a way in which we can engage people that we elect into 86 00:05:29,340 --> 00:05:34,260 positions of authority, and we have a right to information. So 87 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:39,750 it's important that we be privy to that information. So that was 88 00:05:39,750 --> 00:05:44,310 really the starting piece for me. And then I kind of found UCR 89 00:05:44,310 --> 00:05:48,660 I think, and listen quite frequently to Luis rather and 90 00:05:48,660 --> 00:05:52,080 Michael Medellin, who before he departed now UFO gene, and so 91 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:55,830 ever since you know, COVID started, I've been really just 92 00:05:55,860 --> 00:06:00,480 soaking it all up and being a sponge on this topic. So I've 93 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:04,950 tried to throw myself into it as much as I can. And you're not 94 00:06:04,950 --> 00:06:08,910 just the FOIA aspect, as a result of the good work that 95 00:06:08,910 --> 00:06:11,160 you've been doing. So I'm really just standing on the shoulders 96 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,490 of giants like yourself, some great Australian researchers, 97 00:06:14,490 --> 00:06:18,810 Keith bass to field build chalk, Paul Dane, Ross Coltart these 98 00:06:18,810 --> 00:06:22,320 guys, I'm just really learning from them and learning from what 99 00:06:22,410 --> 00:06:27,150 you did through your discovery efforts to try and engage my 100 00:06:27,150 --> 00:06:31,290 elected representatives here in Australia. And and following the 101 00:06:31,290 --> 00:06:35,790 effort that Luis Jimenez at UCR spearheaded with the big phone 102 00:06:35,790 --> 00:06:40,830 home, I had never engaged my elected representatives before, 103 00:06:40,860 --> 00:06:44,160 you know, really this year or late last year. So it was 104 00:06:45,420 --> 00:06:49,230 through the efforts of the big phone home and the work that you 105 00:06:49,230 --> 00:06:53,670 do that I've really got off my ass and thrown myself into the 106 00:06:53,670 --> 00:06:55,890 game rather than watching from the sidelines. 107 00:06:56,250 --> 00:06:58,110 John Greenewald: Well, I appreciate that. And you've 108 00:06:58,110 --> 00:07:02,550 obviously have done that work. And that's, that's why I wanted 109 00:07:02,550 --> 00:07:04,620 to reach out to you for this interview is because I have such 110 00:07:04,620 --> 00:07:07,410 appreciation for people that instead of sitting on the 111 00:07:07,410 --> 00:07:11,250 sidelines, get stand up and start doing something and you've 112 00:07:11,250 --> 00:07:15,090 definitely done that. And you've utilized the Australian version, 113 00:07:15,090 --> 00:07:17,640 I think they call it the Freedom of Information Act. Also, there 114 00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:20,640 are some countries that have variations of the same name, but 115 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:23,790 similar concept. But for those who don't know, give them a 116 00:07:23,790 --> 00:07:26,790 rundown of the Australian version of the Freedom of 117 00:07:26,790 --> 00:07:30,690 Information Act, and what is it that you can can access? Is it 118 00:07:30,690 --> 00:07:33,810 identical to the American law, or is it a little bit different? 119 00:07:34,170 --> 00:07:37,920 Grant Lavac: Yeah, it's it's actually very comparable to FOIA 120 00:07:37,950 --> 00:07:41,490 in the US. So they typically referred to as just foi in 121 00:07:41,490 --> 00:07:45,270 Australia, even though it's the Freedom of Information Act, fly. 122 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:51,570 Boy, foi, and pretty much, you know, having a right to 123 00:07:51,570 --> 00:07:55,530 information you can request for for documents, obviously, 124 00:07:55,590 --> 00:07:58,140 obviously, anything that's classified or privacy 125 00:07:58,140 --> 00:08:01,800 information, they'll redact with certain redaction 126 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:04,950 classifications that you can look up why the the act itself. 127 00:08:05,490 --> 00:08:10,410 But the nice thing, I guess, for me anyway, when lodging a FOIA 128 00:08:10,410 --> 00:08:13,350 request in Australia, is that the statutory deadline for 129 00:08:13,350 --> 00:08:17,640 responses typically 30 days, whereas I know, in the States, 130 00:08:17,910 --> 00:08:21,390 you've got upwards of what, six to nine years in some instances, 131 00:08:21,390 --> 00:08:25,560 so there's a massive backlog issue in the US. We don't have 132 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:28,860 that that same challenge here in Australia. And you can actually 133 00:08:28,860 --> 00:08:35,640 look at when you receive a FOIA decision and and documents from 134 00:08:35,670 --> 00:08:40,890 the Australian Government, you can identify by the number that 135 00:08:40,890 --> 00:08:44,010 they designated the FOIA it just works on a counter system. And 136 00:08:44,010 --> 00:08:46,380 so there's significantly less requests that have been 137 00:08:46,380 --> 00:08:49,620 submitted to government here in Australia than then obviously in 138 00:08:49,620 --> 00:08:53,370 the US. So it's a much more timely process at the moment, 139 00:08:53,370 --> 00:08:54,060 thankfully. 140 00:08:54,630 --> 00:08:57,840 John Greenewald: So with before we get into specifically the UAP 141 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:02,130 issue, overall with secrecy, and the Australian Government and 142 00:09:02,130 --> 00:09:05,850 military when you use, I was making the joke with the foi 143 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:10,260 instead of FOIA, but the Freedom of Information Act, when you 144 00:09:10,290 --> 00:09:13,770 when you utilize that in Australia, what is the consensus 145 00:09:13,980 --> 00:09:17,910 to the researcher is it I'm up for a battle like it is here in 146 00:09:17,910 --> 00:09:20,430 the States because every time I file one, I'm just, you know, 147 00:09:20,430 --> 00:09:23,550 armoring up and you know, get my weapons ready, because I know 148 00:09:23,550 --> 00:09:26,340 it's going to be a hardship. Is the Australian Government, as 149 00:09:26,340 --> 00:09:30,030 secretive as as the American government 150 00:09:31,260 --> 00:09:34,590 Grant Lavac: will put personally I haven't come up against. I 151 00:09:34,590 --> 00:09:39,180 mean, I've only had success on a small number of FOIA requests 152 00:09:39,210 --> 00:09:42,630 and the redactions that have been included, typically privacy 153 00:09:42,630 --> 00:09:45,600 information or or information that's relevant to the initial 154 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:51,720 request. So I haven't come a cup up against any any specific 155 00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:58,200 pushback on any requests that I've received. I do know that 156 00:09:58,230 --> 00:10:02,130 the responses that you often Get from government and that just 157 00:10:02,130 --> 00:10:06,510 not foyer alone, but also when members of parliament or 158 00:10:06,510 --> 00:10:10,770 Australian senators here, submit a question on notice for for 159 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:14,160 people in positions of leadership, particularly 160 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,100 Australian Defense, the responses that come back are 161 00:10:17,100 --> 00:10:21,960 incredibly pithy, they're very short and succinct. They, as I 162 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:24,840 suspect, which is comparable with the US government, they'll 163 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:28,590 only tell you the absolute bare minimum that addresses your 164 00:10:28,590 --> 00:10:33,180 request. They won't volunteer any information above and beyond 165 00:10:33,180 --> 00:10:38,340 the scope of your inquiry. So that is that that's both a 166 00:10:38,340 --> 00:10:41,010 blessing and a curse. I mean, one of the great things I think 167 00:10:41,010 --> 00:10:45,780 about for and this is really, really why I respect and value 168 00:10:45,780 --> 00:10:49,800 the service that you offer, not just for your own personal 169 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:53,040 curiosity, but those of us that are, you know, members of this 170 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:58,200 community is that FOIA is just one important piece of the 171 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:02,760 puzzle. And, you know, we've only got a few corner pieces of 172 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:06,930 this 10,000 piece puzzle. And we probably got pieces of multiple 173 00:11:06,930 --> 00:11:11,400 puzzles. And you know, when you receive a foyer response with 174 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:15,300 documents, there are often those little breadcrumbs in the foyer, 175 00:11:15,300 --> 00:11:18,030 which then will lead you to submit in one or two other FOIA 176 00:11:18,030 --> 00:11:21,420 requests. And Case in point, if you hadn't submitted a FOIA 177 00:11:21,420 --> 00:11:26,250 request for the classified version of ODNI. As preliminary 178 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,880 preliminary assessment, we probably wouldn't have known 179 00:11:29,910 --> 00:11:34,590 about the redactions pertaining to those common shapes. So yeah, 180 00:11:34,590 --> 00:11:38,460 it's it's, it's important that there are folks like you and 181 00:11:38,460 --> 00:11:42,750 others that recognize that they have a right to information, and 182 00:11:42,750 --> 00:11:46,890 they want to and need to know that information. And they take 183 00:11:46,890 --> 00:11:50,790 it upon themselves to invest the time, energy and effort to 184 00:11:50,790 --> 00:11:54,150 submit these requests, because they often do reveal other 185 00:11:54,150 --> 00:11:57,960 breadcrumbs that form part of a much larger loaf of bread over 186 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:03,240 time. So when you look at the totality of all of the indirect 187 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:06,600 evidence, the anecdotal evidence, the information that 188 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,960 were provided from government, you then start to have a picture 189 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:13,650 as to what potentially is going on. I mean, everyone can 190 00:12:13,650 --> 00:12:18,510 speculate as to what exactly you APR. But, you know, FOIA I 191 00:12:18,510 --> 00:12:21,690 think, is an incredibly valuable part of the equation. 192 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,570 John Greenewald: It definitely as it gets a bad rap, at least 193 00:12:24,570 --> 00:12:28,350 here in America and some circles because it never produces 194 00:12:28,350 --> 00:12:32,730 exactly what we want. But it does offer those those glimpses 195 00:12:32,730 --> 00:12:36,600 you use the 10,000 piece puzzle analogy, and I love the puzzle 196 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:40,200 analogy, the way that I kind of frame it on my end is that you 197 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:43,380 have that 10,000 piece puzzle, and you start putting it 198 00:12:43,380 --> 00:12:47,160 together and you realize that's just a 10,000 piece to another 199 00:12:47,190 --> 00:12:50,490 puzzle, you know, even bigger, kind of keeps branching out. But 200 00:12:50,490 --> 00:12:54,300 boy, it does offer those those glimpses. I want to take you 201 00:12:54,300 --> 00:12:57,840 back to 2017 When you were saying that you were getting 202 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:01,380 into it, I know that that that those stories created worldwide 203 00:13:01,380 --> 00:13:08,040 buzz, but in Australia, was it this the same? country wide, if 204 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:10,110 that makes sense? So like in America, I mean, it was just 205 00:13:10,110 --> 00:13:13,470 explosive, you know, from December 2017, into the 206 00:13:13,470 --> 00:13:16,350 beginning of 2018. There were stories every eight seconds 207 00:13:16,350 --> 00:13:20,820 here. And, and and it was explosive. In Australia. Was it 208 00:13:20,820 --> 00:13:24,360 the same? Or was it hey, look at these crazy Americans. They're 209 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,600 looking at UFOs Yeah, unfortunately, 210 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:29,610 Grant Lavac: it was the the latter. I mean, with the 211 00:13:29,610 --> 00:13:33,990 exception of the crazy part, I think, there has always been 212 00:13:34,980 --> 00:13:39,300 historically Australia has always followed, the US has lead 213 00:13:39,570 --> 00:13:43,140 on on important topics that evolve over time. But Australia 214 00:13:43,140 --> 00:13:47,010 has been very, very slow on the uptake, and particularly the 215 00:13:47,010 --> 00:13:52,080 Australian media. It was only really as a result of the really 216 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:56,850 good work that Ross Ross Cortez is doing with not only his book 217 00:13:56,850 --> 00:14:00,270 in plain sight, but the number of documentaries that he's done 218 00:14:00,300 --> 00:14:06,300 on the seven spotlight spotlight program that he he produces that 219 00:14:06,300 --> 00:14:10,740 the Australian media started to take notice. And so now you have 220 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:16,980 nationally national channels with national reached like 221 00:14:16,980 --> 00:14:20,250 Sunrise program, which I think you've probably been on once or 222 00:14:20,250 --> 00:14:24,420 twice. Yes, I have. Yeah. Yeah. There's the the today show 223 00:14:24,420 --> 00:14:29,190 there's the project, all these various kind of news and current 224 00:14:29,190 --> 00:14:33,030 affairs type shows as well as your breakfast shows. They're 225 00:14:33,030 --> 00:14:36,840 starting to actually take the topic seriously and report on it 226 00:14:36,870 --> 00:14:41,280 when something important happens in the US. So like when the you 227 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:43,980 know, the the public congressional hearing happened 228 00:14:43,980 --> 00:14:50,070 back in May. That, you know, hit the hit the TV, airwaves down 229 00:14:50,070 --> 00:14:53,850 here under and often, they'll invite folks like Jeremy Cobell 230 00:14:53,850 --> 00:14:57,540 to come on and talk about it because he has. He's well 231 00:14:57,540 --> 00:15:00,450 recognized in the community and it's a thought leadership Much 232 00:15:00,450 --> 00:15:04,110 like yourself, and so on. So the one frustration that I have with 233 00:15:04,110 --> 00:15:06,810 the Australian media and credit to them that they're now 234 00:15:06,810 --> 00:15:10,860 starting to cover this topic more seriously, is that there 235 00:15:10,860 --> 00:15:13,740 are still elements that whenever they do a story, or they cover, 236 00:15:13,740 --> 00:15:17,130 they always throw on The X Files theme at the front of it. And it 237 00:15:17,130 --> 00:15:20,490 really just kind of gets right under my skin. I mean, because 238 00:15:20,490 --> 00:15:24,150 we're past that, you know, this is now we're at a point where it 239 00:15:24,150 --> 00:15:28,020 really needs to be taken incredibly seriously, because US 240 00:15:28,020 --> 00:15:32,220 lawmakers and the US Department of Defense is taking it 241 00:15:32,220 --> 00:15:37,080 incredibly seriously. And that's the big driving factor for me is 242 00:15:37,110 --> 00:15:40,770 well, why isn't Australia taking it seriously when our US ally 243 00:15:40,770 --> 00:15:44,220 and five eyes partner is. And that's not just the Australian 244 00:15:44,220 --> 00:15:47,610 Department of Defense, but also the Australian media, you know, 245 00:15:47,610 --> 00:15:51,420 they're not exercising their journalistic due diligence, and 246 00:15:51,420 --> 00:15:55,830 asking these important questions of Australian leadership, you 247 00:15:55,830 --> 00:15:59,760 know, why isn't Australia looking at this issue more 248 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:03,480 closely, because our five eyes partner is so there the 249 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:06,180 frustrations that I kind of have with Australian media, but I do 250 00:16:06,180 --> 00:16:09,570 give them credit that they are starting to cover this somewhat 251 00:16:09,570 --> 00:16:13,560 more seriously than they have in the past and give it more, more 252 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:15,270 breathing time than then than they ever have 253 00:16:15,300 --> 00:16:18,720 John Greenewald: before. And you kind of lead me to my lead me to 254 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:22,410 my next question. And that is, aside from the media. Is the 255 00:16:22,410 --> 00:16:25,080 Australian Government taking this seriously? And it sounds 256 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:29,370 like the answer is no. But can you elaborate on that? What What 257 00:16:29,370 --> 00:16:31,620 are they doing, if anything at all? 258 00:16:32,730 --> 00:16:34,890 Grant Lavac: So well, that's probably a good starting point. 259 00:16:34,890 --> 00:16:39,930 If we if we dial the clock back to the 27th of October of last 260 00:16:39,930 --> 00:16:44,730 year, and I've got a video I can show your audience there. So 261 00:16:44,730 --> 00:16:48,210 following the release of the the ODNI is preliminary assessment 262 00:16:48,210 --> 00:16:54,750 on up on the 25th of June of last year. On a regular cadence 263 00:16:54,750 --> 00:16:57,180 a couple of times a year the Australian government there they 264 00:16:57,180 --> 00:16:59,880 have what is called a Senate estimates hearing where they 265 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:05,280 talk about government government spending on various programs. 266 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:09,450 Yeah. Is the government spending it wisely? Are they are we are 267 00:17:09,450 --> 00:17:13,230 we utilizing taxpayer dollars efficiently and effectively. And 268 00:17:13,230 --> 00:17:16,920 so at that Senate estimates meeting, Senator Peter wish 269 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:20,160 Wilson who's a member of the greens party who's recently been 270 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:25,200 reelected, he was the he was and is continues to be the only 271 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,440 Australian senator that has had the gumption and courage to 272 00:17:28,470 --> 00:17:32,610 raise the topic of UAP and ask questions about it in an 273 00:17:32,610 --> 00:17:36,480 Australian context, which is disappointing, but also 274 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:41,160 encouraging in the respect that he's asking questions, and he's 275 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:44,400 pressing folks in the Australian Department of Defense on this 276 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:48,540 issue. But it's disheartening that his peers have not followed 277 00:17:48,540 --> 00:17:53,010 his lead. So that's why one of my efforts is to continue to 278 00:17:53,010 --> 00:17:56,160 engage my elected representatives to try and 279 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:01,560 encourage and push them in direction of asking the same 280 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:04,230 sort of questions that Senator wish Wilson is asking. So on the 281 00:18:04,230 --> 00:18:07,470 27th of October of last year, that's just some background. 282 00:18:08,550 --> 00:18:14,130 Senator Peter wish Wilson was used his allocated time to ask 283 00:18:14,130 --> 00:18:18,540 the then Chief of Air Force Air Force Air Marshal Mel Hatfield 284 00:18:18,900 --> 00:18:22,740 about UAP in an Australian context following the release of 285 00:18:22,740 --> 00:18:25,740 Odeon eyes preliminary assessment. So let me share my 286 00:18:25,740 --> 00:18:30,000 screen. So your viewers can see this just for context, because 287 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:34,110 it's a really interesting exchange. So I'll just play this 288 00:18:34,110 --> 00:18:34,650 online. 289 00:18:41,610 --> 00:18:45,300 Unknown: Emotional mental helpful to vehicles. I am Paul 290 00:18:45,330 --> 00:18:49,650 and I used to fly airplanes. Not current now, but I think I've 291 00:18:49,650 --> 00:18:53,310 got the information you might need anything to your question? 292 00:18:54,450 --> 00:19:00,960 All right. Okay. Well, right. My question relates to the I know, 293 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:05,820 we have close ties with the US we share intelligence. My 294 00:19:05,820 --> 00:19:10,560 questions relate to release of the report on the 25th of June 295 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:14,130 2021. By the Office of the Director of National 296 00:19:14,130 --> 00:19:18,360 Intelligence, preliminary assessments, unidentified aerial 297 00:19:18,360 --> 00:19:26,490 phenomena. This is an issue that has been it's been raised in. In 298 00:19:26,490 --> 00:19:29,580 Congress, the Department of Defense has submitted a report 299 00:19:30,660 --> 00:19:33,720 to become a significant matter of public interest. And I 300 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,240 suppose I've my first question is, are you aware of that 301 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:38,670 report? It 302 00:19:39,210 --> 00:19:44,970 was not formally aware of the report that I'm thinking there 303 00:19:44,970 --> 00:19:48,450 was an article in the newspapers a commentary about that at some 304 00:19:48,450 --> 00:19:52,110 stage, I'm not quite sure of the content of the report. 305 00:19:53,310 --> 00:19:55,800 Okay, I'm just a matter of riches. What What questions did 306 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:57,120 you think I was going to ask? 307 00:19:58,410 --> 00:20:02,340 Are you going to ask questions? If that aircraft. Sounds like 308 00:20:02,340 --> 00:20:03,870 you're going to ask that UFO. 309 00:20:03,900 --> 00:20:08,970 Well, we'd be very interested to hear your views on this. Look, 310 00:20:09,120 --> 00:20:12,810 yes, it has been reported in the media extensive body language 311 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:14,640 here and instance internationally. 312 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,780 Grant Lavac: So you could see there that air marshal Mel 313 00:20:18,780 --> 00:20:24,030 Hartfield didn't look so without going into the middle. So 314 00:20:24,030 --> 00:20:29,040 without going into the rest of the video, you can see so, in 315 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:32,100 Marshall Mel Hartfield was caught totally off guard with 316 00:20:32,130 --> 00:20:34,920 with that line of questioning and I think he probably felt 317 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,910 somewhat thrown under the bus by Maurice Payne, who was one of 318 00:20:38,910 --> 00:20:44,010 the senators at that that estimates hearing that put him 319 00:20:44,010 --> 00:20:48,210 forward on the on the the hot seat to answer those questions. 320 00:20:48,210 --> 00:20:53,520 So essentially, the Air Marshal mental Hartfield was asked by 321 00:20:53,550 --> 00:20:57,300 Senator which Wilson has the Australian Department of Defense 322 00:20:57,330 --> 00:21:01,080 read the preliminary assessment on UAP. And they hadn't they 323 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,260 hadn't even bothered and this was in October of last year. And 324 00:21:04,260 --> 00:21:06,840 as of earlier this year, they still hadn't read the 325 00:21:06,870 --> 00:21:10,290 preliminary assessment. And Senator whish, Wilson had asked 326 00:21:10,290 --> 00:21:15,000 questions, well, does the Australian Defence Force the 327 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:20,340 armed services have any current reporting or recording protocols 328 00:21:20,940 --> 00:21:25,260 on UAP? Are there any any similar mechanisms like the UAE, 329 00:21:25,290 --> 00:21:30,300 then UAP Task Force? And the question was basically know, the 330 00:21:30,300 --> 00:21:33,840 Australian Department of Defense does not currently have any 331 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:41,400 mechanisms in place to report or record on on UAP which is very 332 00:21:42,150 --> 00:21:45,810 interesting because the Australian the Royal Australian 333 00:21:45,810 --> 00:21:51,180 Air Force has had almost as long as a history at looking at UAP 334 00:21:51,180 --> 00:21:55,800 or UFO what they call UAS or have historically called UAS in 335 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:59,970 Australia, unusual aerial sightings. They had a policy 336 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:04,380 that spanned many decades, and they actually investigated 337 00:22:05,010 --> 00:22:10,140 sightings and reports of UAS from the 1950s through to the 338 00:22:10,140 --> 00:22:17,400 mid 90s until 1996, when they no longer took reports on UAP. And 339 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:21,870 they no longer investigated it. So it really perplexes me as to 340 00:22:21,870 --> 00:22:25,740 why all of a sudden, there seems to be this, you know, this big 341 00:22:25,740 --> 00:22:32,580 push and bought by the US, our US ally, to take this topic 342 00:22:32,610 --> 00:22:37,650 seriously. Now, ever since Nimitz, and everything that's 343 00:22:37,650 --> 00:22:41,670 happened since then, with all of the reports that are coming out 344 00:22:41,670 --> 00:22:45,840 from military aviators and members of the personnel in the 345 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:52,500 military, there seems to be this. This this uptick of 346 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:57,420 information that's been disseminated ever since 2017. 347 00:22:57,690 --> 00:23:01,980 And more and more questions are being asked by US lawmakers on 348 00:23:01,980 --> 00:23:05,640 this topic. Yet Australia is dragging their heels, they're 349 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:09,270 just toeing the line, like they've done since 1996, where 350 00:23:09,270 --> 00:23:12,930 they stopped looking into this topic, and they just have no 351 00:23:12,930 --> 00:23:18,450 desire whatsoever to to, to revisit it. So their position 352 00:23:18,450 --> 00:23:23,190 has not changed for a good 25 plus years. And I don't 353 00:23:23,190 --> 00:23:27,000 understand why. So that's been the driving motivation for me to 354 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,400 try and get to the bottom through these FOIA requests that 355 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:33,990 I've submitted as to well, what do you know about UAP? And when 356 00:23:33,990 --> 00:23:36,810 did you know it? And why aren't you having discussions about it 357 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,120 when our usli is? So 358 00:23:39,780 --> 00:23:42,000 John Greenewald: that leads me to two questions before we get 359 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,630 into specifically the documents themselves. My first is a quick 360 00:23:45,630 --> 00:23:47,340 one. Do you think they're being honest? 361 00:23:49,500 --> 00:23:51,630 Grant Lavac: Personally, I don't think they are. I think they 362 00:23:51,630 --> 00:23:55,170 know, I think they're holding a lot of cards close to their 363 00:23:55,170 --> 00:23:59,220 chest. They I think they know more than they're, they're 364 00:23:59,220 --> 00:24:04,080 revealing. And there's a couple of reasons why I think that one, 365 00:24:04,470 --> 00:24:08,040 the stigma and ridicule that has long plagued this topic, I 366 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:14,550 think, has also long plagued members of the military and 367 00:24:14,550 --> 00:24:17,880 folks that, you know, see something and say something in 368 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:24,570 Australia. So I think at a an elected official level, or if 369 00:24:24,570 --> 00:24:27,900 you're in a position of leadership in government, there 370 00:24:27,900 --> 00:24:32,940 is this fear of political suicide still on this topic. And 371 00:24:32,940 --> 00:24:35,520 I would say to folks, Australian senators and members of 372 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:37,890 parliament that are concerned that well, if I talk about this, 373 00:24:37,890 --> 00:24:42,030 I'm going to be, you know, it's going to upset my constituents 374 00:24:42,030 --> 00:24:46,440 and it's going to risk me being reelected. I would say just have 375 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,620 a look at Senator wish Wilson's record. He just got reelected. 376 00:24:49,740 --> 00:24:54,180 And he's been asking questions about UAP in Australian context, 377 00:24:54,390 --> 00:24:59,280 quite frequently now. And it was asked after that hearing in in 378 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,410 October of last knew that I reached out to Senator wish 379 00:25:01,410 --> 00:25:06,960 Wilson's office. And I've been, thankfully in regular contact 380 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,960 with him providing him with updates on what I've been 381 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,650 discovering through FOIA. So I think political suicide is one 382 00:25:13,650 --> 00:25:17,460 aspect of it. I also think that there there is potentially a 383 00:25:17,460 --> 00:25:21,810 degree of embarrassment on the on the side of the Royal 384 00:25:21,810 --> 00:25:25,350 Australian Air Force that the whole reason why and if I show a 385 00:25:25,350 --> 00:25:30,330 document, I'll just show another document that your your audience 386 00:25:30,330 --> 00:25:37,770 can, can look at on just stop this one share the other. So 387 00:25:37,770 --> 00:25:46,290 this is just for, for context. So back in 1993, there was a 388 00:25:46,290 --> 00:25:50,310 briefing paper that was prepared by a gentleman by the Bretton 389 00:25:50,310 --> 00:25:53,460 Beddington he prepared a briefing paper for the Chief of 390 00:25:53,460 --> 00:25:55,740 Air Force. So back then it was called the chief of the Air 391 00:25:55,740 --> 00:26:00,960 Staff. And in this briefing paper pertaining to unusual 392 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,380 aerial sightings policy, there is basically I'll just scroll 393 00:26:04,380 --> 00:26:09,120 down to the appropriate pages here, suggested policy going 394 00:26:09,120 --> 00:26:11,820 forward. So for many years, the Royal Australian Air Force has 395 00:26:11,820 --> 00:26:15,210 been formally responsible for handling unusual aerial 396 00:26:15,210 --> 00:26:17,940 sightings at the official level. consideration, though of the 397 00:26:17,940 --> 00:26:21,300 scientific record suggests that whilst not all UAS have a ready 398 00:26:21,300 --> 00:26:25,680 explanation and that's the bit that really threw me. Whilst not 399 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,890 all UAS have already explanation there is no compelling reason 400 00:26:28,890 --> 00:26:32,730 for the Ardabil F other left to continue to devote resources to 401 00:26:32,730 --> 00:26:36,750 recording investigating and attempting to explain UAS the RW 402 00:26:36,750 --> 00:26:40,590 f no longer accepts reports on us and no longer attempts 403 00:26:40,590 --> 00:26:43,830 assignment of causal allocation of liability. Members of the 404 00:26:43,830 --> 00:26:46,650 community are essentially encouraged to reach their local 405 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:51,120 police or law enforcement, as well as any UFO civilian 406 00:26:51,120 --> 00:26:55,950 organizations, like the likes of MUFON. So back in 1993, they 407 00:26:55,950 --> 00:26:59,280 were laying you know, setting the stage for the Royal 408 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:03,120 Australian Air Force to kind of wipe at the hands of this topic. 409 00:27:03,450 --> 00:27:07,110 And in 1996, that's exactly what happened. They ceased taking 410 00:27:07,170 --> 00:27:11,370 reports they ceased investigating it and in 2013, 411 00:27:11,580 --> 00:27:14,970 the unusual aerial sightings policy that they had was 412 00:27:14,970 --> 00:27:17,910 formally terminated. They're just 413 00:27:18,750 --> 00:27:20,940 John Greenewald: Yeah, if I can jump in really quick, just for 414 00:27:20,940 --> 00:27:24,810 in the States. Our military acronym for UAS is unmanned 415 00:27:25,020 --> 00:27:29,640 aerial system or aircraft system, but I know you already 416 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,490 said it. But can you say again, that's not the same? 417 00:27:32,850 --> 00:27:37,020 Grant Lavac: No, that's the UAE exact so UAS now in Australia is 418 00:27:37,020 --> 00:27:42,450 more so referred to the drones. So but but between the 1950s 419 00:27:42,450 --> 00:27:47,670 through to the mid 1990s, UFO in Australia was referred to by the 420 00:27:47,670 --> 00:27:51,660 Royal Australian Air Force's as UAS, unusual aerial sightings. 421 00:27:51,900 --> 00:27:55,710 And it's since now evolved into unidentified aerial phenomena 422 00:27:55,710 --> 00:28:01,170 UAP and even now, unidentified aerospace undersea phenomena UAV 423 00:28:02,310 --> 00:28:03,750 I keep losing track of all the 424 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,890 John Greenewald: days, but it's frequently discussed on this 425 00:28:07,890 --> 00:28:10,470 channel. really damn confusing all that is. 426 00:28:10,770 --> 00:28:12,660 Grant Lavac: And there's something behind that, in itself 427 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,720 is a strategic decision. I think why they always use weed 428 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,680 acronyms. So that was an important document that came out 429 00:28:20,070 --> 00:28:24,690 through through FOIA I think, a number of years ago. So fast 430 00:28:24,690 --> 00:28:30,960 forward to October of last year, and I'll just pull up a another 431 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,050 document for your viewers to see. 432 00:28:35,820 --> 00:28:38,250 John Greenewald: And thanks for the clarity on the UAS. I just 433 00:28:38,250 --> 00:28:42,000 wanted to make it a little less confusing for those going well, 434 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:43,560 wait a minute, they're talking about drones? 435 00:28:44,159 --> 00:28:47,789 Grant Lavac: Yes, it is confusing. And so I've, I've 436 00:28:47,789 --> 00:28:52,079 refined refrain from including the acronym UAS in FOIA requests 437 00:28:52,079 --> 00:28:56,249 now, because that will capture obviously stuff that's drone 438 00:28:56,249 --> 00:28:59,849 related in this day and age, but I still refer to unusual aerial 439 00:28:59,849 --> 00:29:03,839 sightings. So I'm following the and I'll read out some of the 440 00:29:03,839 --> 00:29:06,089 key elements here so your audience doesn't have to read 441 00:29:06,089 --> 00:29:10,559 it. But following the questions that Senator wish Wilson asked 442 00:29:10,559 --> 00:29:13,799 of Chief of Air Force, Air Marshal Mel Hartfield, back in 443 00:29:13,799 --> 00:29:17,399 October of last year, and by the way, we haven't played the full 444 00:29:17,399 --> 00:29:20,099 exchange that was just really the front end of it, to kind of 445 00:29:20,099 --> 00:29:23,669 highlight the distaste that the Air Marshal had for that line of 446 00:29:23,669 --> 00:29:29,729 questioning. You can through the, the Australian Parliament's 447 00:29:29,729 --> 00:29:32,339 website or even my channel, the unexplained rundown, you can 448 00:29:32,339 --> 00:29:34,979 watch that exchange in its entirety. Yeah, but 449 00:29:35,580 --> 00:29:37,860 John Greenewald: I will just so the audience knows I will link 450 00:29:37,860 --> 00:29:42,120 to Grant's video to his channel with that you have the full 451 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:46,320 exchange in there. Right. So and that's the link you had sent me. 452 00:29:47,070 --> 00:29:49,680 This there's another link that I'll share with Okay, yeah, make 453 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,890 sure I got it. For those that are watching or listening on the 454 00:29:52,890 --> 00:29:55,740 audio podcast version, just check the show notes. So on 455 00:29:55,740 --> 00:29:58,590 YouTube, you'll find them below in the description, audio 456 00:29:58,590 --> 00:30:02,550 podcast, just go to W WW dot, the blackbaud.com. And you'll 457 00:30:02,550 --> 00:30:05,910 see a podcast listing, find grants interview, and it'll be 458 00:30:05,910 --> 00:30:08,430 in the show notes there. So we'll get that linked over. 459 00:30:09,060 --> 00:30:11,310 Grant Lavac: Fantastic. Yeah. So So essentially, Senator wish 460 00:30:11,310 --> 00:30:14,850 Wilson was not satisfied with the responses that air marshal 461 00:30:14,850 --> 00:30:17,910 mail Hartfield gave at that Senate estimates hearing. So he 462 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,880 submitted some questions to refer to his questions on 463 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,630 notice. And so the questions that he posed for the Department 464 00:30:24,630 --> 00:30:27,780 of Defense, the Australian Department of fence to Air 465 00:30:27,780 --> 00:30:31,350 Marshal, Mel Hatfield, has the Department of Defense had the 466 00:30:31,350 --> 00:30:33,630 opportunity to formally review or denies preliminary 467 00:30:33,630 --> 00:30:36,990 assessment. And as I had indicated previously, their 468 00:30:36,990 --> 00:30:41,670 response here was no, they have not what guidance, if any, has 469 00:30:41,670 --> 00:30:45,420 the department sought on the publication of the report, the 470 00:30:45,420 --> 00:30:47,910 Department of Defense has not sought any guidance at all on 471 00:30:47,910 --> 00:30:51,180 the on the publication. So they're probably the two key 472 00:30:51,180 --> 00:30:54,360 questions at this juncture. So essentially, Australian 473 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,720 Department of Defense is saying, No, we haven't read Oh, denies 474 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,450 preliminary assessment. We don't have any interest in it. We're 475 00:31:00,450 --> 00:31:03,840 not going to read it anytime soon. And that's what raised 476 00:31:03,870 --> 00:31:06,780 alarm bells from so why wouldn't you? Why wouldn't you want to 477 00:31:06,780 --> 00:31:11,310 know what your US ally and five eyes partner in the strongest, 478 00:31:11,490 --> 00:31:15,720 most advanced and powerful military in the world? What 479 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,900 keeps them up at night, if they're taking this seriously, 480 00:31:18,900 --> 00:31:24,480 and they were not able to identify 143 out of 144 reports 481 00:31:24,630 --> 00:31:29,970 of UAP. That's a success rate of less than 1%. To identify what 482 00:31:29,970 --> 00:31:32,760 they are, wouldn't that keep you up at night and want to know 483 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:37,230 what your usli is worried about? And being a Five Eyes partner. 484 00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:44,340 The Five Eyes is a collaboration across a number of countries, 485 00:31:44,340 --> 00:31:48,030 they share signals intelligence, so they share data to help 486 00:31:48,180 --> 00:31:51,270 identify potential national security threats, essentially, 487 00:31:51,420 --> 00:31:57,060 to help mitigate, you know, potential threats in the future 488 00:31:57,060 --> 00:31:59,700 as well as strengthen capabilities and mitigate 489 00:31:59,700 --> 00:32:03,810 vulnerabilities essentially. So that was the document that was 490 00:32:04,380 --> 00:32:09,270 released, or the responses to Senator wish Wilson's questions 491 00:32:09,270 --> 00:32:13,530 on notice. There's a another key document, which I was able to 492 00:32:13,530 --> 00:32:17,310 secure through for, and I won't show every document that I had 493 00:32:17,310 --> 00:32:20,670 prepared for today, but I'll just show you, the key we love 494 00:32:20,670 --> 00:32:23,580 John Greenewald: documents, you, you're in the right place to 495 00:32:23,580 --> 00:32:24,870 show that so no matter 496 00:32:24,870 --> 00:32:28,980 Grant Lavac: what, so I'll show this one briefly. So once that 497 00:32:28,980 --> 00:32:32,760 information came back that, you know, the Australian Department 498 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:38,100 of Defense has no appetite to investigate this issue and has 499 00:32:38,100 --> 00:32:41,910 not read or denies preliminary assessment. One of the questions 500 00:32:41,910 --> 00:32:44,130 that Senator wish Wilson had asked during the Senate's 501 00:32:44,130 --> 00:32:47,850 estimates to Air Marshal Mel Hatfield, was can you check 502 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:52,050 across the other services, Army, Navy, and so on, to see if they 503 00:32:52,050 --> 00:32:56,490 currently have any reporting mechanisms in place. And so I 504 00:32:56,490 --> 00:33:02,190 submitted a FOIA request on emails and correspondence that 505 00:33:02,220 --> 00:33:06,180 helped inform the responses that the Australian Department of 506 00:33:06,180 --> 00:33:09,870 Defense provided and public publicize that in that they 507 00:33:09,870 --> 00:33:13,350 published in those responses to Senator which worked on that the 508 00:33:13,350 --> 00:33:18,390 previous slide that I showed, and credit to the Armed Services 509 00:33:18,420 --> 00:33:20,910 Australia department fence, they did their due diligence that 510 00:33:20,940 --> 00:33:24,150 they were actually asking the question, Does name Navy army 511 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,470 have protocols? Historically, have they had any protocols? 512 00:33:28,740 --> 00:33:32,610 This question was a one that threw me though, if no protocol 513 00:33:32,610 --> 00:33:37,620 exists for Navy army. Or if no protocol exists, does Navy army 514 00:33:37,620 --> 00:33:41,340 intend to establish service specific protocols for reporting 515 00:33:41,340 --> 00:33:45,870 on UFOs and UAPs? So and he says, I'm on the fence, if we 516 00:33:45,870 --> 00:33:48,960 need to ask this one. And this document, this was an email from 517 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,290 a jean Elliot, who I've actually gone after his emails in a 518 00:33:52,290 --> 00:33:57,450 follow up for your request to see what he has, you know, 519 00:33:57,570 --> 00:34:02,520 corresponded internally on on UAP. So that was one that was 520 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,880 interesting, but it was good to see that at least the Department 521 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,450 of fence had done its due diligence, and and was asking 522 00:34:09,450 --> 00:34:14,580 around to see if if there was any mechanisms in place across 523 00:34:14,580 --> 00:34:20,070 any of the other services. Fast forward, again, to another 524 00:34:20,100 --> 00:34:22,920 document that I secured through FOIA. And I'll provide a bit of 525 00:34:23,460 --> 00:34:27,630 context on this one. Let me just pull this up for you. So it's 526 00:34:27,630 --> 00:34:34,590 good to go. I think this is the one. Here we go. So I had in 527 00:34:34,740 --> 00:34:39,570 when was it, it was on the fifth eighth of April. This year, I 528 00:34:39,570 --> 00:34:47,070 submitted a FOIA request. And I'll just make sure I've got I 529 00:34:47,070 --> 00:34:51,150 can scroll down for you a bit. I submitted a FOIA request to 530 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:56,700 capture emails for the newly appointed defense space 531 00:34:56,700 --> 00:35:00,330 commander, her name is Catherine Roberts because there were is an 532 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:04,560 article on Keith bass, the field for folks that don't know Keith 533 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,340 bass to field. He's an incredible researcher. He's an 534 00:35:08,340 --> 00:35:11,370 Australian based researcher. He'd been doing a lot of work on 535 00:35:11,610 --> 00:35:15,300 the UAP UFO topic in Australia for many, many years. And I saw 536 00:35:15,300 --> 00:35:18,450 an article on his blog about this newly appointed defense 537 00:35:18,450 --> 00:35:24,270 space commander, Catherine Roberts. And in her bio on the 538 00:35:24,300 --> 00:35:27,900 on the Australian Department fences website or the Royal 539 00:35:27,900 --> 00:35:32,520 Australian Air Force website. It she comments that she has. She's 540 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,820 an avid science fiction buff. And I thought, Oh, well, I 541 00:35:35,820 --> 00:35:40,710 wonder what her take is. I wonder what her Inkling is on 542 00:35:40,710 --> 00:35:46,320 UAP. So I decided to go after her emails from the 27th of 543 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,960 October, which was the date of the Senate estimates hearing to 544 00:35:48,990 --> 00:35:52,650 the date that I submitted the request. And to my absolute 545 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:58,500 surprise and delight, I received a very significant series of 546 00:35:58,500 --> 00:36:02,640 documents in response. Now I think it's significant a lot of 547 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,970 people out there that are well versed in following UAP and 548 00:36:05,970 --> 00:36:08,670 Australian context might think it's a bit of a nothing burger. 549 00:36:09,030 --> 00:36:11,280 And that's right, I respect that nothing burger, but I think it 550 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:16,830 was a something burger, because what we essentially got back if 551 00:36:16,830 --> 00:36:22,590 I zoom out here, and this document was only recently 552 00:36:22,590 --> 00:36:26,730 updated as of the 26th of May of this year. So this was a 553 00:36:26,730 --> 00:36:30,510 document an internal document, a briefing paper for the Chief of 554 00:36:30,540 --> 00:36:35,670 Air Force. Again, then Air Marshal Mel Hatfield that was 555 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:40,530 produced after those questions were asked of him at the Senate 556 00:36:40,530 --> 00:36:43,650 estimates in October of last year. And after the Australian 557 00:36:43,650 --> 00:36:46,920 Department defense responded to Senator wish Wilson's questions 558 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:51,780 on notice. There was this briefing paper that was created 559 00:36:51,780 --> 00:36:52,830 and shared. 560 00:36:54,180 --> 00:36:57,240 To Catherine Roberts, the defense space commander who is 561 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:03,240 vice, she's also a vice Air Marshal. And the table of 562 00:37:03,240 --> 00:37:08,070 contents are quite telling, because there is a section 563 00:37:08,610 --> 00:37:13,080 designated strategic narrative. And there are also some specific 564 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:18,450 talking points to essentially give the Chief of Air Force and 565 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,150 others in positions of leadership and maybe the Royal 566 00:37:21,150 --> 00:37:25,230 Australian Air Force, a script to keep them on point. If 567 00:37:25,230 --> 00:37:28,800 they're asked questions by maybe the press if they picked up on 568 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,020 this topic, which sadly, they haven't to date, which is a bit 569 00:37:31,020 --> 00:37:34,170 disappointing, or if they're asked any questions from other 570 00:37:34,260 --> 00:37:38,070 Australian Members of Parliament or Australian senators. So if I 571 00:37:38,070 --> 00:37:41,640 come down to strategic narrative, and this is really 572 00:37:41,670 --> 00:37:48,480 what got under my skin, is that this briefing paper, which the 573 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,420 background behind the composition of this briefing 574 00:37:51,420 --> 00:37:56,700 paper, was if I just come down to the next page, background 575 00:37:56,700 --> 00:38:02,490 information pertaining to the strategic narrative was the ODNI 576 00:38:02,490 --> 00:38:05,190 is preliminary assessment. So someone in the Department of 577 00:38:05,190 --> 00:38:08,580 Defense, or the Royal Australian Air Force had read that report. 578 00:38:08,970 --> 00:38:12,360 And the findings of that report helped inform the commentary in 579 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:16,680 this document, the strategic narrative that the that was 580 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:21,330 being pushed to the Chief of Air Force is UFO UAP are likely to 581 00:38:21,330 --> 00:38:24,930 be one of three things natural, or other benign phenomena or 582 00:38:24,930 --> 00:38:27,600 other benign phenomena. I have no frame of reference as to what 583 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:31,500 that is, but confused on that one. Anomalies with sensors or 584 00:38:32,190 --> 00:38:35,460 technologies that are human made, there is absolutely no 585 00:38:35,460 --> 00:38:39,990 reference there to a potential catch all other been that the 586 00:38:39,990 --> 00:38:44,910 ODNI documented or the the UAP Task Force, was not able to 587 00:38:44,910 --> 00:38:50,190 identify 143 of 144, sightings, or reports. So I'm thinking 588 00:38:50,220 --> 00:38:55,470 well, how can how can the Australian Department of Defense 589 00:38:55,470 --> 00:38:59,010 so the Royal Australian Air Force, make a determination as 590 00:38:59,010 --> 00:39:03,420 to what UAP are likely to be or not likely to be if they haven't 591 00:39:03,420 --> 00:39:07,500 even read or been privy to the classified data that's 592 00:39:07,500 --> 00:39:11,430 documented in the classified version of ODNI? As preliminary 593 00:39:11,430 --> 00:39:14,790 assessment? How can they make that determination? And they 594 00:39:14,790 --> 00:39:16,770 can't they can't make that determination, because they 595 00:39:16,770 --> 00:39:19,170 haven't seen any of the data that the US is looking at. And 596 00:39:19,170 --> 00:39:22,320 US lawmakers are looking at behind closed doors that's 597 00:39:22,470 --> 00:39:26,460 really got them concerned and asking questions. So this 598 00:39:26,460 --> 00:39:30,960 really, really raised some questions for me, they, this 599 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:35,520 strategic narrative has to come from the opinion of the author 600 00:39:35,550 --> 00:39:39,090 of this document. It's an uninformed opinion, that is 601 00:39:39,090 --> 00:39:42,600 potentially informing policy or the position of the Royal 602 00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:44,820 Australian Air Force, the Australian Department of Defense 603 00:39:44,820 --> 00:39:48,120 going forward, which is completely in my opinion, the 604 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:50,550 wrong approach to take, if you're going to make a 605 00:39:50,550 --> 00:39:53,820 determination on strategic and strategic narrative is basically 606 00:39:54,060 --> 00:39:57,720 Well, this is the story that we want to tell and this is what we 607 00:39:57,720 --> 00:40:01,740 want our allies and folks that may To be on our allies to this 608 00:40:01,740 --> 00:40:05,490 is the line of of talk that we want to take and for them to 609 00:40:05,490 --> 00:40:08,580 believe. So that was the strategic narrative that they 610 00:40:08,610 --> 00:40:12,750 came up with which I question because they haven't even been 611 00:40:12,750 --> 00:40:16,530 privy to any of the the classified data and the Odeon 612 00:40:16,530 --> 00:40:20,040 eyes preliminary assessment, they went on to kind of break 613 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:23,550 background information was okay. The ODNI is preliminary 614 00:40:23,550 --> 00:40:27,450 assessment does not draw any conclusions on what you APR and 615 00:40:27,450 --> 00:40:33,000 most remain unexplained. Well, that alone should be reason, a 616 00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,450 compelling enough reason for you to actually jump into the game 617 00:40:36,450 --> 00:40:39,570 and say, Okay, well FL US ally is unable to identify a lot of 618 00:40:39,570 --> 00:40:42,750 these things. And they potentially could be foreign 619 00:40:42,750 --> 00:40:47,160 adversarial, as they've indicated in the strategic 620 00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:47,880 narrative, 621 00:40:47,970 --> 00:40:50,730 John Greenewald: and if I can just jump in really quick, that 622 00:40:50,730 --> 00:40:53,370 second line there the second on the second line, but same 623 00:40:53,370 --> 00:40:57,540 sentence on what you just read was mainly due to not enough 624 00:40:57,540 --> 00:41:01,020 data or insufficient data, if you scroll to page three, yeah. 625 00:41:01,710 --> 00:41:04,200 And the only reason that stuck out to me is that wasn't 626 00:41:04,230 --> 00:41:08,010 necessarily the case. Unless I'm forgetting about language. I did 627 00:41:08,010 --> 00:41:12,900 a big video on this. And, and honestly, they picked the 144 628 00:41:12,900 --> 00:41:18,390 that they picked, had had some of the most best data available. 629 00:41:19,350 --> 00:41:21,690 So that that's interesting that they have that line in there 630 00:41:21,690 --> 00:41:24,960 that just I'm sorry to jump on you there. But it stuck out to 631 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:28,110 me. And I wanted to point that out, because during project 632 00:41:28,110 --> 00:41:32,640 Bluebook in the 40s 50s, and 60s, throughout those, that's 633 00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,760 what they blamed insufficient data, but a lot of cases that 634 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:39,030 they couldn't identify had both visual observations and 635 00:41:39,210 --> 00:41:42,000 instrumentation to back it up. So you can't just say there's 636 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:46,350 lack of data there. And on the contrary, there was a lot of 637 00:41:46,350 --> 00:41:49,920 data and they could not identify it. So anyway, it seems like 638 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,530 they you're absolutely right. This is based on kind of nothing 639 00:41:52,530 --> 00:41:56,580 in somebody's opinion, because that I unless I'm just 640 00:41:56,580 --> 00:41:59,610 forgetting a line in that report. But that's that's not 641 00:41:59,610 --> 00:42:01,680 true. Essentially, the 642 00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:03,660 Grant Lavac: report was screaming, we'd need more data, 643 00:42:03,660 --> 00:42:07,530 we need to be looking at more. We need to be analyzing more 644 00:42:07,530 --> 00:42:10,770 data, more sensitive data, more visual data, more radar data 645 00:42:10,770 --> 00:42:15,900 more, we need more to make a better informed conclusion as to 646 00:42:15,900 --> 00:42:19,290 what UAP could potentially potentially be. This is what 647 00:42:19,290 --> 00:42:23,580 threw me in this briefing paper, the report. So they're referring 648 00:42:23,580 --> 00:42:26,400 to ODNI as preliminary assessment finds no evidence 649 00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:30,090 that UAP or extraterrestrial origin. Oh denies preliminary 650 00:42:30,090 --> 00:42:34,080 assessment made absolutely no reference to extraterrestrial. 651 00:42:34,290 --> 00:42:38,340 Now, it didn't say that. It was it didn't say that. It wasn't it 652 00:42:38,340 --> 00:42:42,450 actually didn't refer to it whatsoever. So why, in my 653 00:42:42,450 --> 00:42:45,420 opinion, and why the mischaracterization to a degree 654 00:42:45,660 --> 00:42:48,960 of Oh denies preliminary assessment and the need to 655 00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:52,560 include this line in background information that supports the 656 00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:56,820 strategic narrative. It's because I suspect that the Royal 657 00:42:56,820 --> 00:43:01,800 Australian Air Force has rough has referred to extraterrestrial 658 00:43:01,830 --> 00:43:07,200 in a lot of its materials prior that document that UAS policy 659 00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,860 that that cis brief document, extra the word extraterrestrial 660 00:43:10,860 --> 00:43:13,500 is referred to, I think, a number of occasions in that 661 00:43:13,500 --> 00:43:16,380 document. So they have actually referenced it in documentation 662 00:43:16,380 --> 00:43:21,270 in the past, but they for some reason, they felt the need to 663 00:43:21,270 --> 00:43:25,290 include it in this particular briefing paper now and then it 664 00:43:25,290 --> 00:43:29,820 goes it goes on to report some of the sites some of the citing 665 00:43:29,850 --> 00:43:33,930 the site some of the findings of Odeon is preliminary assessment, 666 00:43:34,500 --> 00:43:38,340 that UAP reportedly appeared to exhibit unusual flight 667 00:43:38,340 --> 00:43:41,280 characteristics that could potentially be sent to error. 668 00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:46,410 But again, we need more data to help identify what UAP could be. 669 00:43:46,590 --> 00:43:51,270 UAP clearly pose a safety of flight issue. So we know that 670 00:43:51,270 --> 00:43:54,210 the US is looking at it because there are potential national 671 00:43:54,240 --> 00:43:58,290 security threats and safety of flight issues for military 672 00:43:58,290 --> 00:44:03,450 aviators. They felt the need to highlight here that if civilians 673 00:44:03,450 --> 00:44:06,450 wish to report UAP they should contact their local police 674 00:44:06,450 --> 00:44:08,760 authorities or get in contact with a civilian research 675 00:44:08,790 --> 00:44:13,920 organization like MUFON. They reiterated their position that 676 00:44:13,950 --> 00:44:20,310 the defense canceled its instruction pertaining to UAS 677 00:44:20,310 --> 00:44:26,130 what it does about reports received and so on canceled that 678 00:44:26,130 --> 00:44:29,760 instruction in 2000. The actual policy was formally canceled in 679 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:35,520 2013. This is to your point before John UAP, also referred 680 00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:38,940 to as animated animated fight flying objects or in unusual 681 00:44:38,940 --> 00:44:42,480 aerial sightings. But then it gets really interesting talking 682 00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:49,110 points. So this is I believe, designed to keep members of the 683 00:44:49,110 --> 00:44:53,910 Royal Australian Air Force leadership on track on message 684 00:44:53,940 --> 00:44:57,540 if they're asked questions by the Australian media or 685 00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:01,710 Australian senators or members of Parliament. How are you? AP 686 00:45:01,710 --> 00:45:04,410 reported defense defense does not have a policy. Well, we 687 00:45:04,410 --> 00:45:07,020 already know that risk. restoratively are a double, 688 00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:10,950 double AF was responsible for handling reports but ceased 689 00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:14,940 taking them none in 96. After again determining that there was 690 00:45:14,970 --> 00:45:18,510 no scientific or other compelling reason to devote 691 00:45:18,510 --> 00:45:22,950 resources to the recording and investigation of VoIP. Again, 692 00:45:22,980 --> 00:45:26,850 why wouldn't the compelling reason be that our US ally has 693 00:45:26,850 --> 00:45:32,010 not been able to identify 143 144 cases of UAP defense 694 00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:35,700 safety of flight incidents, including those potentially 695 00:45:35,700 --> 00:45:39,150 posed by UfP are handled by the defense aviation safety assert 696 00:45:39,180 --> 00:45:44,580 authority known as data I went after incident reports are what 697 00:45:44,580 --> 00:45:48,990 they call occurrence reports. By data for 10 years, they knock me 698 00:45:48,990 --> 00:45:53,040 back on 10. So I compromised to five and there haven't been any 699 00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:57,270 reports of UAP. And any occurrence reports for last five 700 00:45:57,270 --> 00:46:00,660 years. Senator wish Wilson took that one step further. And 701 00:46:00,660 --> 00:46:03,300 wanted to see well, has there any been anything reported in 702 00:46:03,300 --> 00:46:06,240 the last 10 years? And they said no. And then he went back and 703 00:46:06,240 --> 00:46:08,730 said, well, has there anything been anything in the last 20 704 00:46:08,730 --> 00:46:12,810 years? And they also said no, but he was he was he was basing 705 00:46:12,810 --> 00:46:16,140 his request on a search for unidentified aircraft rather 706 00:46:16,140 --> 00:46:21,270 than UAP. So I suspect, or UAS, so I suspect that may not have 707 00:46:21,570 --> 00:46:23,220 produced any fruit on that front. 708 00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:25,320 John Greenewald: Could they have just done unidentified? I mean, 709 00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:27,300 does it work? It would have made 710 00:46:27,300 --> 00:46:30,060 Grant Lavac: sense to maybe just to try and capture all 711 00:46:30,060 --> 00:46:33,930 information via identified and I've included the keyword and 712 00:46:33,930 --> 00:46:39,060 identified in a lot of my, my, my FOIA requests. Following on 713 00:46:39,060 --> 00:46:42,720 from from from that specifically? Yeah, so there 714 00:46:42,720 --> 00:46:43,020 might be 715 00:46:43,079 --> 00:46:45,329 John Greenewald: so you still have open cases? for that? I 716 00:46:45,329 --> 00:46:47,519 Grant Lavac: do. Yeah, I've got I've got quite a few open ones. 717 00:46:47,519 --> 00:46:48,749 Yeah. Because you just do a 718 00:46:49,050 --> 00:46:52,530 John Greenewald: keyword search for unusual. See what happens? 719 00:46:52,619 --> 00:46:55,949 Grant Lavac: Yeah. And and that's, and that's, as you've 720 00:46:55,979 --> 00:46:58,829 commented, a couple of times what's challenging is because 721 00:46:58,829 --> 00:47:03,479 the acronyms or terminology is always changing. You always have 722 00:47:03,479 --> 00:47:07,319 to adjust your FOIA request to try and capture, you know, what 723 00:47:07,319 --> 00:47:10,079 you think is gonna bear some fruit? And like you've said in 724 00:47:10,079 --> 00:47:12,779 the past, you don't want to be too specific with a four 725 00:47:12,779 --> 00:47:15,359 question. You don't want to be too vague. You kind of find the 726 00:47:15,359 --> 00:47:19,799 Goldilocks zone to try and try and get some some some 727 00:47:19,799 --> 00:47:20,519 information. 728 00:47:22,469 --> 00:47:25,679 John Greenewald: It's a lesson I learned over and over and over, 729 00:47:25,679 --> 00:47:29,159 but, but I was only half being facetious there when I said, you 730 00:47:29,159 --> 00:47:32,519 know, just doing a request were unusual or just unidentified, 731 00:47:32,819 --> 00:47:36,269 because you were saying that the senator had them do a search. 732 00:47:36,629 --> 00:47:40,619 And I'm sorry, aircraft, you right. So that particular 733 00:47:40,679 --> 00:47:45,329 phrasing may not appear that way. But if unidentified does or 734 00:47:45,329 --> 00:47:49,169 or something similar, they just won't do it. And I just had that 735 00:47:49,169 --> 00:47:52,109 incident happen to me a couple of weeks ago with a FOIA 736 00:47:52,109 --> 00:47:56,639 request. So yeah, the least amount of description you can 737 00:47:56,639 --> 00:48:00,659 give the better. And I've gotten to the point of, for example, 738 00:48:00,659 --> 00:48:03,389 just for the the FOIA listeners out there, I was trying throw in 739 00:48:03,419 --> 00:48:07,469 two cents on, on doing keyword searches. But I used to do like 740 00:48:07,469 --> 00:48:10,589 all SAP, for example, advanced aerospace weapon system 741 00:48:10,589 --> 00:48:15,839 applications program, just do advanced aerospace, and cut out 742 00:48:15,839 --> 00:48:19,109 the whole thing, because the acronyms are so darn difficult 743 00:48:19,109 --> 00:48:23,489 to remember that they're likely miss represented in documents 744 00:48:23,489 --> 00:48:26,909 anyway. But generally, when you do those types of just two 745 00:48:26,909 --> 00:48:31,469 words, versus five, you have a much, much better, you know, 746 00:48:31,469 --> 00:48:35,669 better method to to get responsive records. So yeah, if 747 00:48:35,669 --> 00:48:38,069 they accept the request, I wouldn't highly recommend to do 748 00:48:38,069 --> 00:48:40,889 just some of those keywords and see if they kick it back on. 749 00:48:40,889 --> 00:48:41,069 Yeah, 750 00:48:42,090 --> 00:48:43,830 Grant Lavac: absolutely. And these are the sorts of things 751 00:48:43,830 --> 00:48:47,400 I'm learning as I go along the ride. I mean, I've learned a 752 00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:51,000 hell of a lot from from you, and the the live streams and the 753 00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:55,140 recorded videos that you put out a lot of the articles that you 754 00:48:55,140 --> 00:48:58,080 publish, and and just the black vault itself is a great 755 00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:01,920 resource. I mean, I've one of the one of the other topics I'm 756 00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:04,140 fascinated by is the Phoenix lights, which we can talk about 757 00:49:04,140 --> 00:49:07,020 in just a moment. But I've actually looked at some of the 758 00:49:07,050 --> 00:49:10,710 FOIA documents that you've secured historically, back in 759 00:49:10,710 --> 00:49:15,330 9790 97, I think, you know, after the Phoenix lights, so, 760 00:49:16,140 --> 00:49:22,110 you know, that's where I'm still being a massive sponge on this 761 00:49:22,110 --> 00:49:27,630 topic and being a student of fire and learning from, from you 762 00:49:27,630 --> 00:49:33,150 and your real leadership on on FOIA that you've, that you've 763 00:49:33,150 --> 00:49:34,950 been involved with for a number of decades. 764 00:49:34,950 --> 00:49:37,110 John Greenewald: Now. I appreciate that. I'm 26 years in 765 00:49:37,110 --> 00:49:40,980 and I'm still learning. There's no, I don't think there's any 766 00:49:40,980 --> 00:49:43,230 such thing as a FOIA expert anymore. 767 00:49:43,530 --> 00:49:46,680 Grant Lavac: There's, there's no, it's not. It's not a 768 00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:48,240 destination. It's a journey, isn't it? 769 00:49:48,240 --> 00:49:49,770 John Greenewald: So that's right. And I don't think the 770 00:49:49,770 --> 00:49:52,530 journey will ever end. I love the journey, though. But yeah, 771 00:49:52,530 --> 00:49:54,480 it's it's definitely a learning experience. 772 00:49:54,510 --> 00:49:56,850 Grant Lavac: And look, I would say to any folks out there that 773 00:49:57,510 --> 00:50:00,960 that like me are very curious on this topic. But we're also a 774 00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:06,000 concerned citizen and want truth and transparency from those that 775 00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:10,830 we elect into positions of authority. Submit a FOIA 776 00:50:10,830 --> 00:50:14,250 request, if you've got a question. FOIA is much scarier 777 00:50:14,250 --> 00:50:18,000 than it actually is. I think that the thought of submitting a 778 00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:21,540 form request is quite daunting for a lot of folks. It certainly 779 00:50:21,540 --> 00:50:25,230 was for me before I submitted my first FOIA request. But if you 780 00:50:25,230 --> 00:50:29,640 know what you're wanting to ask, and you can frame it in a 781 00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:34,020 certain way that, you know, you're not being overly specific 782 00:50:34,020 --> 00:50:37,470 or overly vague, you're quite direct on what you're after, 783 00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:44,280 then, you know, I've, what I've been really surprised by and 784 00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:51,630 also kind of, you know, thankful that some there are folks out 785 00:50:51,630 --> 00:50:55,140 there that have now started that have been following. Obviously, 786 00:50:55,140 --> 00:50:57,300 the the post that I've been putting out there and the videos 787 00:50:57,300 --> 00:51:01,320 on my channel that have reached out to me privately to ask me 788 00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:06,000 questions or say that they would be interested on collaborating 789 00:51:06,030 --> 00:51:09,390 on a FOIA request if they don't feel confident to submit one 790 00:51:09,390 --> 00:51:14,040 themselves. So I'm really kind of taken aback that, you know, 791 00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:17,700 there are folks that are taking notice of just the the work that 792 00:51:17,700 --> 00:51:21,300 I've been doing, purely from a curiosity standpoint, and the 793 00:51:21,300 --> 00:51:24,060 fact that I've arrived to this information, Australian 794 00:51:24,060 --> 00:51:27,510 taxpayer. So I'm asking these questions, but I wouldn't have 795 00:51:27,510 --> 00:51:31,140 asked those questions if it wasn't for the work of you. And 796 00:51:31,230 --> 00:51:33,690 Luis Jimenez in the big phone home and those sorts of things. 797 00:51:33,690 --> 00:51:36,390 So again, that's where I come back and say, you know, thank 798 00:51:36,390 --> 00:51:40,080 you for inspiring me and motivating me to, to get into 799 00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:40,590 the game. 800 00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:41,640 John Greenewald: I appreciate that. 801 00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:45,180 Grant Lavac: Thank you. So yeah, I'm cognizant of your audience's 802 00:51:45,180 --> 00:51:49,680 time. But I just want to skip through to the really the last 803 00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:54,930 through a couple of talking points, with the US calling UAP 804 00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:57,660 a potential threat to national security should Australian be 805 00:51:57,660 --> 00:52:01,650 concerned. Again, they reiterate that UAP are likely to be one of 806 00:52:01,650 --> 00:52:04,110 three things well, again, how can they determine what it's 807 00:52:04,110 --> 00:52:07,560 likely to be or not likely to be? If they're, if they haven't 808 00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:09,450 seen any of the classified data and they are denied 809 00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:11,190 John Greenewald: or they're not doing anything themselves for 810 00:52:11,190 --> 00:52:11,790 25? 811 00:52:11,819 --> 00:52:13,469 Grant Lavac: Well, they haven't or they haven't looked at this 812 00:52:13,469 --> 00:52:19,139 topic since 1996. You've there's a ton of ton of historical data 813 00:52:19,139 --> 00:52:22,649 in the National Archives of Australia. You know, they 814 00:52:22,649 --> 00:52:26,459 released a lot of their, their reports, case files, and so on, 815 00:52:26,489 --> 00:52:29,189 that are readily accessible and publicly available in National 816 00:52:29,189 --> 00:52:34,289 Archives. But they haven't been looking at any data since 1996. 817 00:52:34,679 --> 00:52:37,199 And they haven't even looked at any of the data that our US 818 00:52:37,199 --> 00:52:42,809 allies collected. And only last week, bit over a week ago, the 819 00:52:42,839 --> 00:52:46,019 new Australian minister for defense he's also the Deputy 820 00:52:46,019 --> 00:52:50,219 Prime Minister Richard miles, had a meeting at the Pentagon 821 00:52:50,489 --> 00:52:55,559 with the Secretary of Defense Lloyd Lloyd Austin, Austin. And 822 00:52:55,889 --> 00:52:58,889 I can bet my bottom dollar that there would have been something 823 00:52:58,889 --> 00:53:04,259 tabled for discussion around this topic. So I've the day of 824 00:53:04,259 --> 00:53:07,739 their meeting, which was the 14th your 13th of July 14 July 825 00:53:07,739 --> 00:53:11,309 for me, I went after I submitted a FOIA request for 826 00:53:11,669 --> 00:53:14,789 correspondence meeting schedules, meeting agendas, 827 00:53:14,789 --> 00:53:20,519 talking points to see if well, is the Australian minister for 828 00:53:20,519 --> 00:53:24,929 defense, the US Secretary of Defense's counterpart, at least 829 00:53:25,649 --> 00:53:29,969 taking notice of the serious interest that the US has on this 830 00:53:29,969 --> 00:53:33,029 topic? And are they at least, you know, trying to find out a 831 00:53:33,029 --> 00:53:35,339 little bit more for themselves so that they don't get caught 832 00:53:35,339 --> 00:53:38,549 red faced? This is the other issue I have. And I know I'm 833 00:53:38,639 --> 00:53:42,149 darting back back bit back and forth here. But that's okay. So 834 00:53:42,149 --> 00:53:44,459 the National Defense Authorization Act that Biden 835 00:53:44,459 --> 00:53:47,759 signed into law in December of last year. One, there is a 836 00:53:47,759 --> 00:53:51,419 single clause in that legislation that mandates that 837 00:53:51,419 --> 00:53:56,369 the new office dedicated to investigating UAP has to 838 00:53:56,369 --> 00:53:59,249 coordinate with allies and partners of the United States to 839 00:53:59,249 --> 00:54:03,869 better understand the extent and nature of the phenomena of UAP. 840 00:54:04,079 --> 00:54:07,949 So, Australia, being a Five Eyes partner and a strong ally of the 841 00:54:07,949 --> 00:54:13,049 US, the US the office, the now new Arrow office is obviously in 842 00:54:13,049 --> 00:54:17,399 due course, it's obviously got a six year, six year mission, it's 843 00:54:17,399 --> 00:54:20,639 going to reach out to its allies at some point and ask questions 844 00:54:20,639 --> 00:54:23,849 about well, can you help us with this UAP issue because we're 845 00:54:23,849 --> 00:54:26,999 having a real time trying to identify it back home. And we 846 00:54:26,999 --> 00:54:30,929 know the US is gonna say we know that you've looked into this 847 00:54:31,019 --> 00:54:33,959 topic in the past because you had a policy from the 50s 848 00:54:33,959 --> 00:54:37,199 through the mid 90s. And there have been numerous reports that 849 00:54:37,199 --> 00:54:40,469 are well documented in the archive in the National Archives 850 00:54:40,469 --> 00:54:43,739 of Australia, that there were reports of anomalous crafts and 851 00:54:43,769 --> 00:54:47,609 objects cited at military military installation bases in 852 00:54:47,609 --> 00:54:53,759 Australia. herald a halt bass on on in Western Australia that was 853 00:54:53,789 --> 00:54:57,719 that is well referenced in ROSS Cortez book in plain sight. 854 00:54:57,929 --> 00:55:01,049 You've got the warmer weather weapons range in South 855 00:55:01,049 --> 00:55:04,919 Australia, which Interesting fact my uncle, my mother's 856 00:55:04,919 --> 00:55:09,929 brother has since passed away. He was the project manager of a 857 00:55:09,959 --> 00:55:12,719 top secret project called reset, which was responsible for 858 00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:17,519 launching Australia's very first satellite back in 1967. And 859 00:55:17,519 --> 00:55:21,659 there were a number of sightings reported at that weapons range 860 00:55:21,659 --> 00:55:26,339 that military base over a decade and so much so that there was 861 00:55:26,339 --> 00:55:31,319 even a civilian UFO group that was created in the region to 862 00:55:31,319 --> 00:55:35,489 investigate those those those sightings. You've also got bases 863 00:55:35,489 --> 00:55:38,789 like Pine Gap in the Northern Territory, which is a joint 864 00:55:38,819 --> 00:55:42,779 operated us Australia joint operated base, where there have 865 00:55:42,779 --> 00:55:46,559 been sightings reported as well. And Glen Ross documents a lot of 866 00:55:46,559 --> 00:55:50,999 these in his book. So if the US is going to come knocking on our 867 00:55:50,999 --> 00:55:54,029 door and say, We know that you knew there have been sightings, 868 00:55:54,659 --> 00:55:58,889 you're over our joint military military installation plan gap. 869 00:55:59,099 --> 00:56:02,819 Can you help us identify or provide some more data on what 870 00:56:02,819 --> 00:56:06,629 you APR if they come back to the US since they are? Yeah, sorry, 871 00:56:06,629 --> 00:56:09,809 folks, we haven't been looking at this issue since 1996. Nor 872 00:56:09,809 --> 00:56:14,249 have we bothered to even inquire as to can we be privy to some of 873 00:56:14,249 --> 00:56:16,439 the classified information in the classified version of the 874 00:56:16,439 --> 00:56:19,439 API's prelim assessment, they're going to be completely red 875 00:56:19,439 --> 00:56:22,709 faced, and they're going to have nothing to contribute to the 876 00:56:22,739 --> 00:56:26,669 conversation, and they're going to be completely embarrassed. 877 00:56:26,669 --> 00:56:30,149 And in the eyes of public perception, I think that's one 878 00:56:30,149 --> 00:56:32,789 of the big fears that the Australian Department of Defense 879 00:56:32,939 --> 00:56:36,209 has in the Royal Australian Air Force. There's this public 880 00:56:36,209 --> 00:56:41,279 perception that if we tell the public that we're going to start 881 00:56:41,279 --> 00:56:45,359 looking at UAP, again, we're admitting that we don't have 882 00:56:45,359 --> 00:56:48,329 control. We don't have air dominance, we don't have control 883 00:56:48,329 --> 00:56:51,839 of our skies. And we're admitting the fact that, you 884 00:56:51,839 --> 00:56:58,019 know, well, we don't really have the control that we, we perceive 885 00:56:58,019 --> 00:57:01,229 that we have and we want the public to have this degree of 886 00:57:01,229 --> 00:57:05,129 trust, that we know what's going on and flying around in our 887 00:57:05,129 --> 00:57:07,979 skies. So that's the other element that I fear as part of 888 00:57:07,979 --> 00:57:08,579 it as well. 889 00:57:09,419 --> 00:57:12,179 John Greenewald: That's in that is, though, it's something that 890 00:57:12,179 --> 00:57:16,049 I've bantered about for a long time here in America is that 891 00:57:16,349 --> 00:57:20,579 national security concern of telling the people we are not in 892 00:57:20,579 --> 00:57:24,599 control. And to my surprise there, they're actually doing 893 00:57:24,599 --> 00:57:28,649 that now. And I only laugh about it, because for so long, I 894 00:57:28,649 --> 00:57:31,139 thought they'll they'll never admit it. And then here they 895 00:57:31,139 --> 00:57:35,369 are. And you're right. I mean, there there is that element of, 896 00:57:35,429 --> 00:57:38,939 oh, we are not in control. And we have to tell our people, 897 00:57:38,939 --> 00:57:42,269 we're not in control. But I am surprised that they haven't 898 00:57:42,269 --> 00:57:47,249 followed the lead and done it themselves. So that's that's 899 00:57:47,249 --> 00:57:49,769 just surprising to me. I'm wondering if that will shift in 900 00:57:49,769 --> 00:57:52,259 the next coming months or years? 901 00:57:52,769 --> 00:57:55,589 Grant Lavac: Well, I hope so. Because this this talking point 902 00:57:55,589 --> 00:57:58,889 is the one that really concerns me as an ally have the United 903 00:57:58,889 --> 00:58:01,709 States offered to us to collaborate on UAP 904 00:58:01,709 --> 00:58:05,609 investigations. No, the United States nor any other nation or 905 00:58:05,609 --> 00:58:08,729 ally have requested or offered to collaborate on UAP reporting 906 00:58:08,759 --> 00:58:11,879 or investigation. This is the real kick in the guts. For me, 907 00:58:11,969 --> 00:58:18,329 defense has no desire to seek collaboration on this issue. And 908 00:58:18,359 --> 00:58:22,889 there was a document that I only just received from the Royal 909 00:58:22,889 --> 00:58:26,039 Australian Air Force. This is the last one I'll show for 910 00:58:26,039 --> 00:58:29,609 Europe for your audience here is make sure I bring the right one 911 00:58:29,609 --> 00:58:35,249 up. So I had reached out to the the new minister, Defense 912 00:58:35,339 --> 00:58:38,669 Minister for the defence Richard miles throughout the month of 913 00:58:38,669 --> 00:58:43,529 June repeatedly asking him the question, well, you know, our US 914 00:58:43,529 --> 00:58:47,099 ally and fynbos partner is taking UAP very seriously, why 915 00:58:47,099 --> 00:58:49,229 isn't the Australian Department of Defense and I've tried to 916 00:58:49,229 --> 00:58:52,739 engage him frequently in a respectful manner via email and 917 00:58:52,739 --> 00:58:56,969 on Twitter. And I received a response back on the seventh of 918 00:58:56,969 --> 00:59:01,019 July from an RJ Danny's the Air Vice Marshal of head of Air 919 00:59:01,019 --> 00:59:04,529 Force capability, saying I don't know if I can highlight it. But 920 00:59:06,269 --> 00:59:09,119 saying defense obviously does not have a protocol for the 921 00:59:09,119 --> 00:59:12,809 reporting and recording of UAP and UFO sightings at this point 922 00:59:12,809 --> 00:59:15,629 in time, and this is a neutral letter, obviously. But I do take 923 00:59:15,629 --> 00:59:19,829 some comfort knowing that this is at this point in time defense 924 00:59:19,829 --> 00:59:22,559 will not be pursuing research into this matter. That's 925 00:59:22,559 --> 00:59:25,919 obviously disappointing. But that gives us some hope that 926 00:59:25,919 --> 00:59:28,289 maybe there is an opportunity for them to review their 927 00:59:28,289 --> 00:59:32,069 position down the road. I understand that the United 928 00:59:32,069 --> 00:59:37,229 States Congress recently held a hearing on UAP and UFO. So 929 00:59:37,259 --> 00:59:40,889 they're well and truly aware of the fact that the view of the US 930 00:59:40,889 --> 00:59:45,869 is looking at it, but they're just considering it a matter of 931 00:59:45,869 --> 00:59:48,419 a foreign government. So they're not wanting to touch this topic. 932 00:59:48,749 --> 00:59:52,319 And that's the big question I have is why Why don't you want 933 00:59:52,319 --> 00:59:57,119 to touch this topic and ask questions, because they are US 934 00:59:57,119 --> 01:00:01,349 allies. And that's why I would really love for members of the 935 01:00:01,349 --> 01:00:04,679 Australian media to exercise their journalistic due diligence 936 01:00:04,679 --> 01:00:08,699 and ask this question of the Australian Department of 937 01:00:08,699 --> 01:00:11,339 Defense, well, why aren't you looking into the issue? Why 938 01:00:11,339 --> 01:00:14,039 aren't you taking it seriously when a US ally is 939 01:00:15,659 --> 01:00:17,669 John Greenewald: in the States, especially prior to the 940 01:00:17,669 --> 01:00:20,849 conversation from the Department of Defense kind of exploding, 941 01:00:20,849 --> 01:00:23,639 where they've got offices, and they're talking about it and 942 01:00:23,639 --> 01:00:27,539 being more open. Prior to that military personnel? Not a ton, 943 01:00:27,809 --> 01:00:31,259 but military personnel, were getting the the mainstream 944 01:00:31,619 --> 01:00:35,669 attention, New York Times ransom stories. So military personnel 945 01:00:35,669 --> 01:00:39,839 were coming forward, is that going on in Australia is the is 946 01:00:39,839 --> 01:00:43,049 the government and military ignoring men and women coming 947 01:00:43,049 --> 01:00:47,609 forward and saying, Hey, look, I was flying here on, you know, 948 01:00:47,609 --> 01:00:50,549 this aircraft, and I saw something is that going on there 949 01:00:50,549 --> 01:00:51,119 as well. 950 01:00:51,629 --> 01:00:55,709 Grant Lavac: So I have anecdotal evidence to support that that I 951 01:00:55,709 --> 01:01:00,419 think, and the Pentagon, to their credit, has now stated 952 01:01:00,419 --> 01:01:05,339 that they're make they're taking a concerted effort to try and 953 01:01:05,339 --> 01:01:09,329 address the stigma and ridicule that's long plagued this topic. 954 01:01:09,329 --> 01:01:14,099 So that they, they're a sensible See Something, Say Something 955 01:01:14,099 --> 01:01:17,009 reporting mechanisms that are available to military aviators 956 01:01:17,009 --> 01:01:20,219 and personnel. I think the fact that there is a lack of those 957 01:01:20,219 --> 01:01:24,089 same reporting mechanisms in Australia, is why people aren't 958 01:01:24,089 --> 01:01:27,359 talking about it. And again, anecdotally, there are folks 959 01:01:27,359 --> 01:01:30,839 that are members of the the Australian Defence Force that 960 01:01:30,839 --> 01:01:35,069 have said something, and they're either reporting it to the likes 961 01:01:35,069 --> 01:01:39,179 of MUFON, because they're the ones that your defense is 962 01:01:39,179 --> 01:01:42,239 saying, well, we don't look at it. But yeah, have a chat with 963 01:01:42,239 --> 01:01:44,489 your police enforcement. I don't know what law enforcement is 964 01:01:44,489 --> 01:01:46,559 going to do about other than take police statement from you. 965 01:01:47,249 --> 01:01:51,569 But have a chat with your local UFO civilian organization, and 966 01:01:51,569 --> 01:01:56,219 they'll take the report. And Ross himself has documented in 967 01:01:56,219 --> 01:01:59,819 plant in his book in plain sight and said on numerous occasions 968 01:01:59,819 --> 01:02:03,509 that he's having ongoing conversations with current and 969 01:02:03,509 --> 01:02:08,669 former members of the Australian Defence Force That Is seeing 970 01:02:08,699 --> 01:02:11,699 anomalous objects, but they're not saying anything about it, 971 01:02:11,699 --> 01:02:15,719 because one, either their fear of being ridiculed the fear of 972 01:02:15,959 --> 01:02:19,739 this fear of the stigma or fear of reprisals, that they may be 973 01:02:19,739 --> 01:02:22,769 jeopardizing their their position, or maybe they have 974 01:02:22,769 --> 01:02:25,469 some form of security classification a nondisclosure 975 01:02:25,469 --> 01:02:29,489 agreement, and they can't talk about it. So anecdotally, there 976 01:02:29,489 --> 01:02:32,969 are a lot of reports coming in from people that don't want to 977 01:02:32,969 --> 01:02:36,209 go on the record saying that I've seen something. But I don't 978 01:02:36,209 --> 01:02:39,809 want to really say something by going on the record, because I 979 01:02:39,809 --> 01:02:42,359 don't want to lose my job, and I want to be made fun of it and be 980 01:02:42,359 --> 01:02:46,409 ridiculed. So Australia, unfortunately, is probably a 981 01:02:46,409 --> 01:02:51,929 good decade or two, behind the US on this effort. Where we are 982 01:02:51,929 --> 01:02:55,889 now is where you guys have come from. And I only hope that 983 01:02:55,889 --> 01:03:00,899 Australia follows the US as lead and eventually falls into line 984 01:03:01,229 --> 01:03:05,279 and talks about this topic. And I think I think there is a 985 01:03:05,279 --> 01:03:08,039 changing of the guard potentially around the corner 986 01:03:08,039 --> 01:03:14,849 because only in the last three days, in Australia, in Sydney, 987 01:03:14,879 --> 01:03:17,999 the there was an event the inaugural it's called the 988 01:03:17,999 --> 01:03:21,389 inaugural Australian Defence science technology and research 989 01:03:21,389 --> 01:03:25,289 summit that was hosted in Sydney as a as a hybrid event Summit, 990 01:03:25,319 --> 01:03:30,539 some in person some virtually. And the whole theme of the 991 01:03:30,569 --> 01:03:34,409 summit was around resilience, the ability and capacity for 992 01:03:34,409 --> 01:03:37,949 human technical systems to quickly adapt and recover from 993 01:03:37,979 --> 01:03:40,739 unexpected interference disruption, adversity, threats 994 01:03:40,769 --> 01:03:43,919 and other stresses stresses to prevail, whether they be 995 01:03:43,919 --> 01:03:47,099 intentionally enacted by an adversary or occur naturally as 996 01:03:47,099 --> 01:03:50,249 a consequence of changing conditions. So the fact that 997 01:03:50,249 --> 01:03:55,529 there is a summit, an Australian Defense Science Technology 998 01:03:55,529 --> 01:03:58,409 Summit and research, some of that's taking place right now. 999 01:03:58,679 --> 01:04:02,489 And there are questions being asked of folks that are thought 1000 01:04:02,489 --> 01:04:05,339 leaders and folks in positions of leadership at that 1001 01:04:05,339 --> 01:04:09,719 conference. I went on Wednesday, who but there are folks that are 1002 01:04:11,069 --> 01:04:14,699 well known in this community in Australia that attended that 1003 01:04:14,699 --> 01:04:17,759 conference, virtually, that we're asking the questions that 1004 01:04:17,759 --> 01:04:22,379 I'm asking, Why is Australia not taking the subject seriously 1005 01:04:22,379 --> 01:04:26,939 when our US ally is and they've mandated that they look into 1006 01:04:26,939 --> 01:04:29,729 this topic by legislation that the National Defense 1007 01:04:29,729 --> 01:04:32,849 Authorization Act, and hopefully now the intelligence 1008 01:04:32,849 --> 01:04:36,869 authorization act when that gets passed. So I do think that there 1009 01:04:36,869 --> 01:04:40,529 is going to be a changing tide in due course, it's just a 1010 01:04:40,529 --> 01:04:43,619 matter of time. The next Senate estimates meeting that's 1011 01:04:43,619 --> 01:04:46,499 scheduled for Australia, I think, is in November of this 1012 01:04:46,499 --> 01:04:49,619 year. So I suspect that Senator wish Wilson is going to have a 1013 01:04:49,619 --> 01:04:53,849 ton more questions to ask at that hearing. And hopefully at 1014 01:04:53,849 --> 01:04:57,509 that point, there are a lot more other senators that are 1015 01:04:57,509 --> 01:04:59,999 following his lead and also asking the same sort of 1016 01:04:59,999 --> 01:05:00,749 Questions? 1017 01:05:01,560 --> 01:05:03,690 John Greenewald: Well, I can't thank you enough for taking the 1018 01:05:03,690 --> 01:05:08,910 time out of your day to share those documents. And I'd love to 1019 01:05:08,910 --> 01:05:11,490 share all of them. If you're okay with that with the 1020 01:05:11,490 --> 01:05:14,340 audience, and I'll put it if you're okay with that, we'll put 1021 01:05:14,340 --> 01:05:17,940 a link into the show notes below, of course, full credit to 1022 01:05:17,940 --> 01:05:21,120 Graham for getting those documents. And hopefully, you'll 1023 01:05:21,180 --> 01:05:23,910 keep me updated when we talk from time to time anyway. But 1024 01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:26,880 I'd love to bring you back on the show the next time you get 1025 01:05:26,880 --> 01:05:29,730 more documents or that hearing happens, hopefully, you'll come 1026 01:05:29,730 --> 01:05:32,520 back and share it with us because as I said, In the 1027 01:05:32,520 --> 01:05:36,030 beginning of the show, I'm so ignorant about other countries, 1028 01:05:36,030 --> 01:05:39,150 my whole focus when it comes to the UAP issue has always been 1029 01:05:39,150 --> 01:05:42,720 the American government. And it's not out of lack of 1030 01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:48,180 interest, but rather, it is so complicated to to try and 1031 01:05:48,180 --> 01:05:52,530 unravel that mystery with the American government. Oh, God to 1032 01:05:52,530 --> 01:05:56,310 tackle another government, it just makes my head explode. So I 1033 01:05:56,310 --> 01:05:59,820 kind of put up a wall mentally, but again, not because of lack 1034 01:05:59,820 --> 01:06:02,790 of interest. So I can't thank you enough for for joining me 1035 01:06:02,790 --> 01:06:03,090 today. 1036 01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:06,060 Grant Lavac: Yeah, the pleasure is absolutely Oman, I really 1037 01:06:06,060 --> 01:06:10,260 appreciate you taking an interest in what is happening 1038 01:06:10,290 --> 01:06:13,260 down under and inviting me to have a chat with you and your 1039 01:06:13,260 --> 01:06:18,360 audience. And, you know, I again, really applaud all of the 1040 01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:22,050 good work that you do, and you're at the forefront leading 1041 01:06:22,050 --> 01:06:26,880 this effort. I'm learning from you, and others so, so continue 1042 01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:31,290 to do the great work that you do it is you offer a true, valuable 1043 01:06:31,290 --> 01:06:34,440 service to this community. So thank you, for you. And I do 1044 01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:38,610 think that, you know, it's not just the US that's taking this 1045 01:06:38,610 --> 01:06:41,940 topic seriously. Now, you've also got Canada, another five 1046 01:06:41,940 --> 01:06:46,050 eyes partner, you've got Brazil has recently held a hearing a 1047 01:06:46,050 --> 01:06:49,860 five and a half hour hearing on on this very topic. So this is 1048 01:06:49,860 --> 01:06:53,280 not an issue that's isolated to just the United States. It's 1049 01:06:53,310 --> 01:06:57,270 affecting other countries around the world. And hopefully, the 1050 01:06:57,270 --> 01:07:00,990 Australian Government gets off its us and takes it seriously 1051 01:07:01,020 --> 01:07:04,590 along with the Australian media. So whenever there are updates to 1052 01:07:04,590 --> 01:07:08,400 share, I'll be sure to to check in with you and and provide you 1053 01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:09,930 with that with any developments. 1054 01:07:10,139 --> 01:07:11,729 John Greenewald: Well, I appreciate that. And the kind 1055 01:07:11,729 --> 01:07:14,909 words and you're welcome whenever you want. Just give me 1056 01:07:14,909 --> 01:07:18,539 a buzz and you are more than welcome to come on. Last. Sorry. 1057 01:07:18,539 --> 01:07:19,229 Go ahead. How's 1058 01:07:19,229 --> 01:07:21,659 Grant Lavac: that next time? I'm in LA? I know it was there a 1059 01:07:21,659 --> 01:07:23,759 couple months back, I promise. 1060 01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:27,330 John Greenewald: I was totally bummed when I saw that will 1061 01:07:28,290 --> 01:07:31,890 almost be blocked you on Twitter as one for me? 1062 01:07:32,159 --> 01:07:35,909 Grant Lavac: No, I had one day in LA and I thought man I know 1063 01:07:35,909 --> 01:07:39,359 it's with with the 405 the way it is the traffic would have 1064 01:07:39,359 --> 01:07:39,689 taken us 1065 01:07:39,689 --> 01:07:42,269 John Greenewald: about a day to drive. So yeah, I totally get 1066 01:07:42,269 --> 01:07:45,689 it. Last question I have for you is throw out I know you're 1067 01:07:45,689 --> 01:07:48,089 you're active on Twitter, which is where I communicate with you 1068 01:07:48,089 --> 01:07:51,419 a lot. How do people contact you if you have a website, your 1069 01:07:51,419 --> 01:07:54,449 YouTube channel? I'll make sure that I link it in the show notes 1070 01:07:54,449 --> 01:07:56,729 below. But for the audio version if they want to find you on 1071 01:07:56,729 --> 01:07:59,009 Twitter, and websites and stuff, how do they do it? 1072 01:07:59,340 --> 01:08:02,100 Grant Lavac: Yeah, so you can find me on Twitter just at my 1073 01:08:02,100 --> 01:08:06,180 handle at Grant Lovak. I'm on YouTube as well. Just search for 1074 01:08:06,180 --> 01:08:10,140 grant Lovak on YouTube. I have a channel called the the 1075 01:08:10,140 --> 01:08:13,920 unexplained rundown where I tackle these kinds of questions. 1076 01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:19,110 What is Australia doing about UAPs I'm actually just about to 1077 01:08:19,140 --> 01:08:24,570 release a brand new video. It's a bit of a passion project, a 1078 01:08:24,570 --> 01:08:28,200 deep dive exploration of Kurt Russell's experience of the 1079 01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:31,410 Phoenix lights which I have to also again, thank to you, John 1080 01:08:31,410 --> 01:08:34,920 for that one because you had a couple months ago, celebrate, 1081 01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:37,890 you're recognizing the 25th anniversary of the Phoenix 1082 01:08:37,890 --> 01:08:41,670 lights, you had Dr. LendKey tie on your show. And I listened to 1083 01:08:41,670 --> 01:08:46,320 that show. And that actually inspired me to research the 1084 01:08:46,320 --> 01:08:49,440 Phoenix lights in particular Kurt Russell's account and I've 1085 01:08:49,440 --> 01:08:51,960 been very fortunate enough after months of research that I've 1086 01:08:51,960 --> 01:08:55,020 actually been able to uncover some some new information 1087 01:08:55,020 --> 01:08:58,590 pertaining to these his his encounters, so I won't give it 1088 01:08:58,590 --> 01:09:01,650 away. It's nothing earth shattering but it certainly was 1089 01:09:01,650 --> 01:09:05,580 intriguing to me being a Kurt Russell fanatic, and a fan of 1090 01:09:05,580 --> 01:09:09,390 the UAP and UFO topic. So yeah, jump on over to my YouTube 1091 01:09:09,390 --> 01:09:11,760 channel. That's, that's going to be dropped in the coming weeks. 1092 01:09:11,820 --> 01:09:13,350 John Greenewald: Very cool. Well, I'll make sure that I 1093 01:09:13,350 --> 01:09:15,630 tweet that out for you as well. But keep me updated when that 1094 01:09:15,630 --> 01:09:18,360 video drops and grant. Thank you so much again, I truly 1095 01:09:18,360 --> 01:09:19,260 appreciate your time. 1096 01:09:19,770 --> 01:09:21,360 Grant Lavac: You're very welcome. Thanks, John. Enjoy 1097 01:09:21,360 --> 01:09:21,900 your win. 1098 01:09:22,050 --> 01:09:24,450 John Greenewald: Thank you and thank you all for listening and 1099 01:09:24,450 --> 01:09:28,020 watching. If you can on YouTube thumbs up button really helps a 1100 01:09:28,020 --> 01:09:30,240 lot. Make sure you're subscribed to the channel. If you're 1101 01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:32,670 watching on the or excuse me, you're listening on the audio 1102 01:09:32,670 --> 01:09:36,000 podcast version. Or if you don't know that I have one. It is 1103 01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:40,620 listed on every podcast platform under the black vault radio. If 1104 01:09:40,620 --> 01:09:44,310 you can consider writing a review I shoot for five stars. 1105 01:09:44,430 --> 01:09:47,700 That would be a huge help. But again, thank you for listening 1106 01:09:47,700 --> 01:09:50,670 and or watching. This is John Greenewald Jr signing off, and 1107 01:09:50,670 --> 01:09:51,510 we'll see you next time.