1 00:00:02,399 --> 00:00:07,559 John Greenewald: Science is advancing. New discoveries are 2 00:00:07,559 --> 00:00:11,819 pushing the boundaries of what we know and even what we 3 00:00:11,819 --> 00:00:19,619 believe. In recent years, the discovery of interstellar 4 00:00:19,649 --> 00:00:23,279 objects like a moolah, moolah, traveling in our galactic 5 00:00:23,279 --> 00:00:27,599 neighborhood have paved the way for a whole new way of thinking. 6 00:00:28,889 --> 00:00:32,429 How long have these once undiscovered objects been flying 7 00:00:32,429 --> 00:00:37,829 around the cosmos? And have they even crashed on Earth, offering 8 00:00:37,829 --> 00:00:45,659 humans a glimpse at an alien intelligence? My guest today is 9 00:00:45,659 --> 00:00:50,099 Bruce Fenton. And he believes that is very much a possibility. 10 00:00:51,059 --> 00:00:53,669 Bruce Fenton: It picks up those waves, it activates the 11 00:00:53,669 --> 00:00:56,669 programming and it just rendezvoused you know, opens 12 00:00:56,669 --> 00:00:59,249 communications, you know, welcome to the galactic center, 13 00:00:59,249 --> 00:01:01,949 we're gonna say, you know, because you've reached a 14 00:01:01,949 --> 00:01:04,019 detectable level of civilization. 15 00:01:04,230 --> 00:01:06,660 John Greenewald: Through years of research and sifting through 16 00:01:06,660 --> 00:01:10,740 scientific findings. He believes he can propose a theory that not 17 00:01:10,740 --> 00:01:14,100 only have interstellar objects crashed on the surface of Earth, 18 00:01:14,460 --> 00:01:18,630 but they may be remnants of an alien technology that impacted 19 00:01:18,630 --> 00:01:25,320 Earth more than 788,000 years ago. He's about to step into the 20 00:01:25,320 --> 00:01:29,880 vault to let us know what he's found. Stay tuned, you're about 21 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:32,370 to journey inside the black vault. 22 00:01:59,519 --> 00:02:01,949 That's right, everybody. As always, thank you so much for 23 00:02:01,949 --> 00:02:05,369 tuning in and making this your podcast or your live stream of 24 00:02:05,369 --> 00:02:09,569 choice. I'm your host, John Greenwald, Jr. and I am looking 25 00:02:09,569 --> 00:02:13,469 forward to the show because it is a topic that I'll admit I'm 26 00:02:13,499 --> 00:02:17,579 kind of brand new on and it is something that I started to dig 27 00:02:17,579 --> 00:02:21,329 in with all the talk about interstellar objects. And Dr. 28 00:02:21,329 --> 00:02:24,179 Avi Loeb, who has been on this program before and his work. 29 00:02:25,739 --> 00:02:27,989 It's started being bantered about a little bit, so I fired 30 00:02:27,989 --> 00:02:31,829 off some FOIA requests. But my guest today, Bruce Fenton, let 31 00:02:31,829 --> 00:02:35,339 me bring Bruce on. Bruce, you're going to be talking a lot about 32 00:02:35,339 --> 00:02:38,669 that. First off, thank you so much for taking the time to join 33 00:02:38,669 --> 00:02:39,689 me today on the show. 34 00:02:40,230 --> 00:02:42,030 Bruce Fenton: Thank you for inviting me, it's definitely a 35 00:02:42,030 --> 00:02:43,380 topic I'm very interested in. 36 00:02:43,860 --> 00:02:46,170 John Greenewald: Absolutely. And I obviously caught that on 37 00:02:46,170 --> 00:02:48,600 social media, I caught some of the things you were posting. And 38 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,930 that is really what piqued my interest. I always, as I just 39 00:02:51,930 --> 00:02:54,990 mentioned, love these types of shows, because I don't have a 40 00:02:54,990 --> 00:02:58,080 lot of background in it. So I'm going to learn right along with 41 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,950 the audience. As we go through this and talk about your work. 42 00:03:02,010 --> 00:03:05,220 Many will probably recognize you from doing various television 43 00:03:05,220 --> 00:03:09,180 programs. I know Ancient Aliens, unexplained files, I believe, 44 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:12,480 was one of the other ones. So it's it's great to have you 45 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,420 here. Before we dive into that, though, I always like to get a 46 00:03:15,420 --> 00:03:19,350 little bit of background. Tell everybody who isn't aware, what 47 00:03:19,350 --> 00:03:22,740 is your background? And what is your main research focus? 48 00:03:23,219 --> 00:03:25,649 Bruce Fenton: Sure. I mean, in terms of conventional education, 49 00:03:25,649 --> 00:03:29,999 and I have an IT degree from University in the UK, I've 50 00:03:29,999 --> 00:03:34,079 worked in IT finance, real estate, a few in places that but 51 00:03:34,079 --> 00:03:38,099 my passion for many years has been ancient mysteries, 52 00:03:38,609 --> 00:03:42,239 anomalous science, you know, anything that's on the edges of 53 00:03:42,389 --> 00:03:46,139 the understood circles includes things we might call paranormal, 54 00:03:46,409 --> 00:03:49,319 as well as the mysteries of space, you know, and the 55 00:03:49,319 --> 00:03:53,399 possibility of life out there. So I guess it's a fairly, it's a 56 00:03:53,399 --> 00:03:57,149 fairly wide gamut. But anything that's just on the fringes of 57 00:03:57,149 --> 00:04:00,869 the known has attracted me so probably had about 30 years of 58 00:04:00,869 --> 00:04:05,729 delving into various facets of the mysterious, best known as 59 00:04:05,729 --> 00:04:08,099 you say, perhaps with appearances on the unexplained 60 00:04:08,099 --> 00:04:10,169 files where that was an expedition out into the Georgian 61 00:04:10,169 --> 00:04:14,069 caucuses, to look for the bones of giants. There's a whole 62 00:04:14,279 --> 00:04:16,679 backstory to why that was, you know, some discoveries that were 63 00:04:16,679 --> 00:04:21,479 made there of possibly anomalous bones. We've also you know, I've 64 00:04:21,539 --> 00:04:24,359 had guest several times on history channels, ancient aliens 65 00:04:24,359 --> 00:04:26,999 as a where the talking heads that gives you a couple of 66 00:04:26,999 --> 00:04:30,269 opinions here and there. And also, I think some people may 67 00:04:30,329 --> 00:04:33,839 remember that I was involved in an expedition in the Ecuadorian 68 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:37,649 Amazon to a site which got so nicknamed the sort of velocity 69 00:04:37,649 --> 00:04:39,959 of giants but that was covered by US and the UK press. And I 70 00:04:39,959 --> 00:04:42,419 think you know, a lot of YouTube channels run stories on that 71 00:04:42,419 --> 00:04:44,519 what seemed to be a strange megalithic wall out in the 72 00:04:44,519 --> 00:04:48,689 Yangon artists so those are probably where people will, if 73 00:04:48,719 --> 00:04:50,969 they do recognize me will recognize me from and then 74 00:04:51,449 --> 00:04:53,339 others that are more on the topics that we look at, you 75 00:04:53,339 --> 00:04:56,609 know, they're mysterious. The Fringe will have heard me 76 00:04:56,609 --> 00:05:00,449 perhaps on radio shows or you know, see me be on YouTube. Yes. 77 00:05:00,479 --> 00:05:04,379 So yeah, a bit of a mix of media platform background. 78 00:05:05,130 --> 00:05:06,540 John Greenewald: And also, I know you've written a couple 79 00:05:06,540 --> 00:05:09,900 books with some focal points, can you can you kind of quickly 80 00:05:09,900 --> 00:05:13,170 go over what what exactly you've written? And what were they 81 00:05:13,170 --> 00:05:13,590 about? 82 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,220 Bruce Fenton: Yeah, I've got a book was published in 2017, 83 00:05:17,220 --> 00:05:21,450 which is the inter Africa theory of human evolution. So that's an 84 00:05:21,450 --> 00:05:25,200 argument that I make that we have a lot of the story of early 85 00:05:25,230 --> 00:05:29,490 origins wrong, that the backstory of the Neanderthal 86 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:34,740 Denisovan and modern human shared narrative has large 87 00:05:34,830 --> 00:05:39,750 inconsistencies in it, which the evidence now accruing from the 88 00:05:39,750 --> 00:05:43,710 cutting edge, points to that we don't have that story, right, 89 00:05:43,710 --> 00:05:46,050 and that we are having to rethink. And again, this is not 90 00:05:46,050 --> 00:05:48,270 particularly controversial, because as you lock this in the 91 00:05:48,270 --> 00:05:51,030 book is now accepted, for example, that Dennis opens, 92 00:05:51,030 --> 00:05:53,610 probably lived down in Australia, and in that region, 93 00:05:54,090 --> 00:05:56,430 that there was all kinds of other hominids, little people in 94 00:05:56,460 --> 00:06:00,300 Indonesia. And so that whole shift is well underway. And that 95 00:06:00,300 --> 00:06:03,660 was published in 2017, with a foreword from Graham Hancock, 96 00:06:03,660 --> 00:06:06,060 which I was really stoked to get, because, of course, I think 97 00:06:06,060 --> 00:06:09,960 most people will know him as perhaps the best known thinker 98 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:14,280 in the fringe. You know, I don't think that anyone else that we 99 00:06:14,280 --> 00:06:18,060 would say, has become better known for his, you know, 100 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:21,780 unconventional thinking. And then I have exogenesis hybrid 101 00:06:21,780 --> 00:06:26,550 humans that was published in 2020. That's on a mixture of 102 00:06:26,550 --> 00:06:31,080 UFOs theories on Aliens, some discussions of anomalous 103 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:35,310 phenomena. And that also has a foreword from Erich Von Daniken. 104 00:06:35,340 --> 00:06:38,910 So, you know, really stoked with that. And of course, in that 105 00:06:38,910 --> 00:06:41,700 field, again, there's I don't think in terms of ancient aliens 106 00:06:41,700 --> 00:06:45,030 and aliens UFOs there's many people more more famous than 107 00:06:45,030 --> 00:06:48,870 everyone down at chemicals, though, you know, he was 108 00:06:48,870 --> 00:06:51,990 probably perhaps best known to the older generation, perhaps. 109 00:06:52,410 --> 00:06:55,110 But I think, you know, most people in these topiaries will 110 00:06:55,110 --> 00:06:58,320 still at least have seen some of his work, you know, at some 111 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:00,810 stage. So, really pleased to both the books got those 112 00:07:00,930 --> 00:07:05,520 forwards. They don't very well, I mean, in terms of in our kind 113 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:07,530 of domain, I mean, certainly they're, they're not selling 114 00:07:07,530 --> 00:07:10,350 like Harry Potter or anything like that. But I'm quite pleased 115 00:07:10,350 --> 00:07:12,720 with the reviews I've had that way. So I'm quite happy with 116 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:14,040 those. So yeah, good. 117 00:07:15,449 --> 00:07:17,039 John Greenewald: Always interesting topics. Sometimes 118 00:07:17,039 --> 00:07:20,129 I'm always a tough sell on some angles. Other angles are kind of 119 00:07:20,129 --> 00:07:23,519 interesting. And I always love diving into that. So maybe, if, 120 00:07:23,789 --> 00:07:26,099 if you if you enjoy the next hour or so maybe we'll bring you 121 00:07:26,099 --> 00:07:29,039 back and talk a little bit more about those topics. But today, 122 00:07:29,039 --> 00:07:32,849 what we were going to dive into was when we were speaking on 123 00:07:32,879 --> 00:07:35,999 social media, what caught my eye was you were talking about some 124 00:07:36,869 --> 00:07:40,799 essentially some some scientific evidence that you didn't say it 125 00:07:40,799 --> 00:07:44,219 in these words, but I kind of felt that you felt there wasn't 126 00:07:44,219 --> 00:07:47,489 a lot of attention to it. And I love stories like that. Because 127 00:07:47,489 --> 00:07:51,359 if there's science and work and evidence and test results or 128 00:07:51,359 --> 00:07:55,589 something that doesn't get a lot of of Spotlight. I'm always I'm 129 00:07:55,589 --> 00:07:58,679 all over it. I want to see it you know, because I obviously 130 00:07:58,679 --> 00:08:02,729 haven't seen it myself. So that caught my eye. Obviously we're 131 00:08:02,729 --> 00:08:06,989 talking about interstellar objects which a moolah. moolah 132 00:08:06,989 --> 00:08:11,009 has been one of the bigger, more more widely known talked about 133 00:08:11,279 --> 00:08:14,999 interstellar object as of late. Obviously, Dr. Avi Loeb has 134 00:08:14,999 --> 00:08:18,959 talked about that a lot. But you were mentioning something 135 00:08:19,019 --> 00:08:23,219 different. So let me pass it to you. What has your focal point 136 00:08:23,219 --> 00:08:25,169 been on that arena? 137 00:08:26,310 --> 00:08:30,870 Bruce Fenton: Yeah, absolutely. So from 2017, we had the first 138 00:08:30,870 --> 00:08:34,710 identification of an insert object into Murmu, which, by now 139 00:08:34,710 --> 00:08:38,610 I imagine, almost everyone listening has heard of who may 140 00:08:38,610 --> 00:08:42,660 or may not be quite surprised if they hadn't. So since then, 141 00:08:42,690 --> 00:08:45,960 we've had two other confirmations of interstellar 142 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:50,640 objects. And that's a comet Borisov, which I think was 2018 143 00:08:50,730 --> 00:08:54,210 It was quite soon after. And then just recently, we've had 144 00:08:54,210 --> 00:08:58,500 confirmation that a small bow like that exploded over Papua 145 00:08:58,500 --> 00:09:02,910 New Guinea in 2014 was in fact, some kind of interstellar 146 00:09:02,910 --> 00:09:06,210 object, you know, quite a small one by comparison to either the 147 00:09:06,210 --> 00:09:09,240 others, but was no less was interesting would come from 148 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:11,820 somewhere outside our solar system. So we now have three of 149 00:09:11,820 --> 00:09:14,640 these confirmed in quite a short period of time. So you think 150 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:18,540 from 2017 to now before that they were unknown, theoretical 151 00:09:18,540 --> 00:09:21,990 objects that many scientists would have discounted just felt 152 00:09:21,990 --> 00:09:24,570 that they didn't exist. You know, that's a familiar story 153 00:09:24,570 --> 00:09:27,810 throughout the history of science that you know, phenomena 154 00:09:27,810 --> 00:09:31,380 that has been discounted has turned out to be not only real, 155 00:09:31,380 --> 00:09:35,220 but possibly quite common. And can I interject real quick and 156 00:09:35,220 --> 00:09:38,550 have you explain why there was a resistance to this until they 157 00:09:38,550 --> 00:09:43,140 were discovered what makes them so unique or different? Sure. 158 00:09:43,290 --> 00:09:46,320 One of the one of the conundrums was that when you look at just 159 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,980 the the distance between stars and you look at the amount of 160 00:09:49,980 --> 00:09:52,950 empty space there is out there was furious that there would be 161 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:56,940 some of these interstellar objects probably, but they would 162 00:09:56,970 --> 00:10:00,000 almost never interact with you know the stars. They 163 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,120 We'll just be flying through those vast gaps between the 164 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:06,060 stars. And there will be a small number of these objects thrown 165 00:10:06,060 --> 00:10:09,120 out of alien solar systems. Right? So the occasional 166 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:13,500 comment, but nobody expected there to be enough of them, that 167 00:10:13,500 --> 00:10:17,100 we would encounter one, you know, in our solar system sort 168 00:10:17,100 --> 00:10:21,030 of visible to us. So it was kind of surprising when they first 169 00:10:21,030 --> 00:10:24,030 detected who murmur. And that's, I think, because then opened the 170 00:10:24,030 --> 00:10:27,300 door to looking for more of these and the fact that we've 171 00:10:27,300 --> 00:10:30,600 now got two others, I think that shows us that this was one of 172 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:32,580 those kinds of situations where if you're not looking for 173 00:10:32,580 --> 00:10:36,630 something, and you don't believe in it, you're really unlikely to 174 00:10:36,630 --> 00:10:40,080 notice it. Because nobody is actually putting in the effort, 175 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:43,140 you know, they're not checking for these. So also, there's 176 00:10:43,140 --> 00:10:45,390 technological limitations. Of course, our technologies have 177 00:10:45,390 --> 00:10:48,270 been improving. So astronomers have, you know, a lot more 178 00:10:48,270 --> 00:10:51,690 access to satellite technologies, you know, we've 179 00:10:51,690 --> 00:10:55,020 seen We've got ever improving telescopes. So I think there's a 180 00:10:55,020 --> 00:10:58,530 mixture there of the technology reaching a level where we will 181 00:10:58,530 --> 00:11:01,830 detect these or easily, but also, there was a bit of luck 182 00:11:01,830 --> 00:11:06,360 within Uber, and it's, it's open the mental floodgates as much as 183 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:09,240 physical floodgates for scientists to then say, well, 184 00:11:09,660 --> 00:11:11,850 there must be more of these, they start looking but that is 185 00:11:11,850 --> 00:11:14,460 the way the skepticism was that I think is that the idea that 186 00:11:14,670 --> 00:11:18,300 you need quite a lot of these, in fact, you need a vast number, 187 00:11:18,420 --> 00:11:21,990 theoretically, to allow for that kind of flow of them coming 188 00:11:21,990 --> 00:11:24,270 through our solar system. So now there's a big question around 189 00:11:24,270 --> 00:11:28,320 this. Are there an unbelievable number of these, you know, 190 00:11:28,350 --> 00:11:31,740 billions or trillions of these things flying around? Or are 191 00:11:31,770 --> 00:11:35,370 some of them directed, in which case that cuts down the number 192 00:11:35,370 --> 00:11:38,790 needed, but of course, makes them more interesting. And Avi 193 00:11:38,790 --> 00:11:42,510 Loeb has kind of already, he's gone to the side of that maybe 194 00:11:42,510 --> 00:11:46,860 some of these are directed. And he suspects that both oumuamua 195 00:11:47,340 --> 00:11:51,390 and the object from Papua New Guinea 2014, that these might 196 00:11:51,420 --> 00:11:55,350 both be some kind of alien technologies, even defunct, or 197 00:11:55,350 --> 00:11:58,830 probes. And I think that's one of the major interesting angles 198 00:11:58,830 --> 00:12:01,740 to this, that we now have, you know, kind of a top astronomer 199 00:12:01,740 --> 00:12:04,890 Harvard astronomer saying that, you know, it makes more sense in 200 00:12:04,890 --> 00:12:06,660 a way if some of these are directed 201 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:11,070 John Greenewald: in your mind, and in your view, with what 202 00:12:11,070 --> 00:12:13,740 we've seen now and discovered, with the moolah, moolah, and and 203 00:12:13,740 --> 00:12:19,800 beyond it now, what now is, is telling you that, that there's 204 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:23,850 possibly some kind of alien technology here, or background 205 00:12:23,850 --> 00:12:29,580 to it, versus it just being a celestial object that broke away 206 00:12:29,580 --> 00:12:32,790 from the gravitational pull of wherever it was. and away it 207 00:12:32,790 --> 00:12:37,650 goes through the universe and Cosmos, and it just by chance 208 00:12:37,650 --> 00:12:41,670 ended up here, what sticks out that there's something more to 209 00:12:41,670 --> 00:12:41,850 it? 210 00:12:42,900 --> 00:12:44,610 Bruce Fenton: Well, it was a couple of things, I mean, would 211 00:12:44,610 --> 00:12:48,090 firstly say that I'd recommend people to, of course, to check 212 00:12:48,090 --> 00:12:53,250 out our globes book, which is extraterrestrial, because he 213 00:12:53,250 --> 00:12:56,850 goes into some depth as to why he suspects for example, these, 214 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,210 the first object in the mirror with alien was you had all kinds 215 00:13:00,210 --> 00:13:03,060 of peculiar aspects, including an unusually high level 216 00:13:03,060 --> 00:13:07,560 reflectivity. So suggesting at a very reflective surface, there 217 00:13:07,560 --> 00:13:11,040 was data indicating it was essentially like a pancake, a 218 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:14,850 bit like a kind of saucer shaped but pancake quite thin. And as 219 00:13:14,850 --> 00:13:19,740 well as that the tip was traveling in an angle that takes 220 00:13:19,740 --> 00:13:22,350 it through the plane of our solar system between the Earth 221 00:13:22,350 --> 00:13:24,480 and Mars, which is kind of interesting, that would happen 222 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,180 to cross the plane. And between if you think about two of the 223 00:13:27,180 --> 00:13:29,940 only two habitable planets where we've Mars, we believe was 224 00:13:29,940 --> 00:13:33,360 habitable. So if it was a directed probe, that's an 225 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:37,470 interesting angle of entry into our solar system. So when you 226 00:13:37,830 --> 00:13:41,280 mesh that with other aspects, you have the rotation of the 227 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:45,870 object. And then finally, it was an anomalous boost as it left 228 00:13:45,900 --> 00:13:48,150 the solar system that it pulled away from the sun and 229 00:13:48,150 --> 00:13:51,930 accelerated in an unexpected way. So there was no sign of 230 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:55,260 outgassing, which would be expected if it was a comment. So 231 00:13:55,260 --> 00:13:59,880 they couldn't really detect any source for there. So that's why 232 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:04,530 oumuamua became kind of a suspicious object. The second 233 00:14:04,530 --> 00:14:08,310 one that's been suggested as, possibly extraterrestrial, this 234 00:14:08,310 --> 00:14:13,170 object in Papua New Guinea, as that came in, it seemed to 235 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:17,580 survive far longer than we'd expect, suggesting that the 236 00:14:17,580 --> 00:14:22,590 material composition is harder and more, you know, more sturdy 237 00:14:22,590 --> 00:14:26,640 than iron in iron meteorites. Right? So it came quite low, you 238 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:29,400 know, low into the atmosphere before exploding. So, again, 239 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,070 there's some theorizing that maybe its composition is 240 00:14:32,070 --> 00:14:36,090 anomalous, and they could be because it's artificial, some 241 00:14:36,090 --> 00:14:39,000 kind of material, they're protected it right. So there's 242 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,510 some reasoning there. With the work I'm doing. It's, you know, 243 00:14:42,540 --> 00:14:45,300 go into some depth, of course into this, but the object that 244 00:14:45,300 --> 00:14:50,220 I'm looking at, it appeared was glaring aspects is there's 245 00:14:50,220 --> 00:14:53,790 evidence suggesting that an interstellar object ended up in 246 00:14:53,820 --> 00:14:58,500 orbit around our planet, before fragmenting and raining down as 247 00:14:58,500 --> 00:15:03,390 debris. Now If something is quite large, so if something 248 00:15:03,390 --> 00:15:08,430 fairly large ends up captured by our planet that in itself is 249 00:15:08,430 --> 00:15:13,050 fairly anomalous, because what we know of so far are quite 250 00:15:13,050 --> 00:15:17,070 small objects like bus size and smaller, that have become sort 251 00:15:17,070 --> 00:15:20,340 of temporary moons of the earth. And that these are then these 252 00:15:20,340 --> 00:15:23,130 are destabilized by the sun's gravity and they they move away, 253 00:15:23,130 --> 00:15:25,620 but we do occasionally that happens, I think, couple years 254 00:15:25,620 --> 00:15:28,320 back, there was one of these strange, you know, temporary 255 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:32,340 satellites. But we're talking about something quite large, the 256 00:15:32,340 --> 00:15:35,970 clock at least a kilometer or multiple kilometers across to do 257 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:39,120 the debris size that we have. That's come in, and if it's 258 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:41,910 coming in from interstellar space, it'd be expected to be 259 00:15:41,910 --> 00:15:45,420 traveling faster than normal comets and asteroids, you know, 260 00:15:45,420 --> 00:15:49,680 these things are not limited by the same speeds that we see for 261 00:15:49,860 --> 00:15:52,440 internal objects in the solar system, right, because they, 262 00:15:52,470 --> 00:15:56,130 they are all limited by the sun's gravitational pull. Right? 263 00:15:56,220 --> 00:15:59,580 So interstellar objects are typically recognized by having a 264 00:15:59,580 --> 00:16:03,720 greater speed as they come in. So now we have a large object 265 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:06,720 that's coming in from interstellar space. And then 266 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:10,830 it's traveling faster than normal. And is somehow ends up 267 00:16:10,860 --> 00:16:13,170 in the orbit of the Earth, even approaching the earth, you know, 268 00:16:13,170 --> 00:16:15,900 he's quite lucky. But the fact that somehow ends up captured 269 00:16:15,900 --> 00:16:20,010 and in orbit, that's very suspicious. So this is one of 270 00:16:20,010 --> 00:16:25,350 the major reasons why I'm very intrigued by the object that I'm 271 00:16:25,380 --> 00:16:28,740 dealing with. Now, it's just debris. That would be the 272 00:16:28,770 --> 00:16:33,180 biggest probably red flag for why it would be interesting, as 273 00:16:33,180 --> 00:16:36,930 an of itself before going into the slightly more complex sort 274 00:16:36,930 --> 00:16:40,560 of chemical argument argument about the debris itself. But 275 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:42,540 hopefully, I guess you have some idea to think about that. Why 276 00:16:42,540 --> 00:16:46,740 would you know, a large, extraordinarily fast object 277 00:16:46,980 --> 00:16:49,080 ended up as a temporary moon of the if. 278 00:16:49,770 --> 00:16:51,960 John Greenewald: So let me back you up, just to make sure that 279 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:56,010 I, that I'm following you correctly, so what your research 280 00:16:56,010 --> 00:16:59,370 and our physical object or objects from a debris field and 281 00:16:59,370 --> 00:17:00,300 Papa New Guinea. 282 00:17:01,470 --> 00:17:03,600 Bruce Fenton: So the first one, the object republic of Guinea 283 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,930 has debris which hasn't been recovered yet. Okay, that's when 284 00:17:06,930 --> 00:17:09,180 the heavy load is actually attempting to recover. 285 00:17:09,210 --> 00:17:11,400 John Greenewald: I gotcha. Okay. That's the one that's underwater 286 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:16,860 that he wants to go grab. That's okay. Yeah, now. Gotcha. So then 287 00:17:16,860 --> 00:17:19,830 the debris that you're talking about was from. 288 00:17:20,910 --> 00:17:24,300 Bruce Fenton: So this is good Australasian Tektite. And so 289 00:17:24,300 --> 00:17:28,650 it's a glassy material that's found spread right across from 290 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:33,210 southern China, down to Northern Antarctica, stretches about 291 00:17:33,210 --> 00:17:37,080 12,000 kilometers. And it's about a 10,000 kilometers wide 292 00:17:37,110 --> 00:17:39,870 debris field going from Madagascar out beyond sort of 293 00:17:39,870 --> 00:17:45,660 Papua VAs to about 20% of the Earth's surface has some amount 294 00:17:45,690 --> 00:17:50,130 of Australasian tectonic last on it. Now, this has been kind of a 295 00:17:50,130 --> 00:17:55,410 mysterious phenomena for well, in terms of serious scientific 296 00:17:55,410 --> 00:17:58,980 investigation for at least about 160 years. And there's been all 297 00:17:58,980 --> 00:18:01,800 kinds of theories as to how we've ended up with, you know, 298 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:06,090 this unbelievably vast debris field, because, of course, you 299 00:18:06,090 --> 00:18:10,500 know, even with impact stuff, you don't normally see anything 300 00:18:10,500 --> 00:18:14,610 on that scale. Right. So it was interesting from the beginning, 301 00:18:14,700 --> 00:18:18,000 the first post to actually write on this in terms of, you know, a 302 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:21,330 fairly serious scientific hypothesis was actually Charles 303 00:18:21,330 --> 00:18:24,570 Darwin, which is kind of funny, because, you know, it's a very 304 00:18:24,570 --> 00:18:28,350 notable figure in history. And he was given a piece of this 305 00:18:28,350 --> 00:18:31,260 Tektite when he was visiting Australia, and he theorized that 306 00:18:31,260 --> 00:18:34,590 it was from a volcanic event that because it's very similar 307 00:18:34,590 --> 00:18:39,210 to obsidian in a number of ways, for example, it's still pretty 308 00:18:39,210 --> 00:18:43,260 faces love it, because in terms of glasses, there are 309 00:18:43,290 --> 00:18:45,150 essentially you know, there's only obviously a few number 310 00:18:45,150 --> 00:18:50,790 types, we have volcanic glass obsidians, we have artificial 311 00:18:50,790 --> 00:18:55,110 glasses that we manufacture. We have impact melt glasses. So 312 00:18:55,110 --> 00:18:57,660 when a meet you or hits the ground and melts, the rock, 313 00:18:57,750 --> 00:19:03,270 converts that into glass. And we have nuclear blast glasses, 314 00:19:03,990 --> 00:19:06,930 which some people were familiar with nuclear test sites. And 315 00:19:06,930 --> 00:19:09,780 then of course, we have these tektites and tektites are 316 00:19:09,780 --> 00:19:15,270 compositionally very similar to both artificial glass and two 317 00:19:15,270 --> 00:19:18,870 obsidians. And the reason why that is, is because when you 318 00:19:19,470 --> 00:19:23,580 manufacture glass, you do it in the crucible, you know, you heat 319 00:19:23,580 --> 00:19:26,430 it, you put the chemicals you want in there, that's heated, 320 00:19:26,460 --> 00:19:29,430 that's mixed, and that's for a period of time, and that removes 321 00:19:29,430 --> 00:19:31,920 volatile chemicals you don't want in them, and you allow the 322 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,650 bubbles to be removed. That's called the fining process. 323 00:19:34,980 --> 00:19:37,620 Mixing the chemicals in you know, thoroughly throughout the 324 00:19:37,620 --> 00:19:41,160 mix makes a homogenous mix of modularity is essentially the 325 00:19:41,370 --> 00:19:44,190 equal distribution of the chemical components throughout 326 00:19:44,190 --> 00:19:48,150 the mix. And so you end up with a homogenous find glass. 327 00:19:48,660 --> 00:19:52,980 volcanic glass is also a homogenous find glass. And the 328 00:19:52,980 --> 00:19:55,260 reason for that, of course, is because it's formed in the cold 329 00:19:55,260 --> 00:19:59,490 era of a volcano, where it's mixing and heating for an 330 00:19:59,490 --> 00:20:04,140 extended period of time. So you end up with very similar glass 331 00:20:04,140 --> 00:20:08,610 products in a way with very few bubbles, quite well mixed. And 332 00:20:08,610 --> 00:20:12,330 with some overlaps in terms of the ice topics and the chemical 333 00:20:12,330 --> 00:20:15,450 volatiles, because there's a lot of similarity there. And then 334 00:20:15,450 --> 00:20:20,010 when you look at impact glasses, and nuclear blast glasses, those 335 00:20:20,010 --> 00:20:23,040 are quite different. And that's because when you get a short 336 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:27,900 lived high energy event, right, you'll get a lot of melting of 337 00:20:28,050 --> 00:20:33,840 sound and rock. And because it's happening fast, you'll get very 338 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:37,890 frothy, foamy material where the water and volatiles start to out 339 00:20:37,890 --> 00:20:41,250 gas. But then there's very rapid cooling, because of course, the 340 00:20:41,250 --> 00:20:44,190 blast has finished, it's quick, there's an explosion, it stops. 341 00:20:44,430 --> 00:20:48,150 So that glass begins to cool rapidly. Bubbles are frozen 342 00:20:48,150 --> 00:20:51,720 inside, you also have a lot of partly melted material from the 343 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:55,740 edges of the blast. And so those are included, bullet use get 344 00:20:55,740 --> 00:20:59,580 tend to get organics like you know, soil included, and pieces 345 00:20:59,580 --> 00:21:02,640 of unmelted material. So you'll see that both in terms of 346 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:06,180 asteroid impact crater sites, and in these nuclear blast 347 00:21:06,180 --> 00:21:09,750 sites. So those are essentially two different kinds of glasses. 348 00:21:10,410 --> 00:21:14,160 tektites, which are theorized normally to be from asteroid 349 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:19,920 impact. They are, unlike impact glasses, and much more like the 350 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,110 volcanic glass and the manmade glass. And this is where we 351 00:21:22,110 --> 00:21:23,880 start. There's a big mystery around this. So 352 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:26,100 John Greenewald: there's an I don't mean to jump in over you 353 00:21:26,100 --> 00:21:29,250 there. But so there are indicators here that it's 354 00:21:29,250 --> 00:21:30,810 manufactured. But apart from 355 00:21:31,650 --> 00:21:33,510 Bruce Fenton: that there's been a process in the background that 356 00:21:33,510 --> 00:21:36,120 we don't fully understand it's very similar to manufacturing, 357 00:21:36,300 --> 00:21:40,980 or is manufacturing, right? Because you somehow have to 358 00:21:40,980 --> 00:21:46,560 explain this period of mixing, and you know, finding, which 359 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:50,730 again, we only know from extended heating, an extended 360 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:54,060 time for the glass to mix. So this is why there's a sort of a 361 00:21:54,060 --> 00:21:58,770 mystery that has persisted around the topic. Give you a 362 00:21:58,770 --> 00:22:00,690 little bit back, because there was there was for a long time, 363 00:22:00,690 --> 00:22:04,590 there were two competing hypotheses, right. As you go to 364 00:22:04,590 --> 00:22:06,570 the beginning, there was a lot of different hypotheses. And I 365 00:22:06,570 --> 00:22:10,020 think people are familiar with how science works usually start 366 00:22:10,020 --> 00:22:13,110 off with there's an anomaly or a mystery, a lot of different 367 00:22:13,110 --> 00:22:15,990 theorists emerge, they will all come out with their own 368 00:22:15,990 --> 00:22:20,340 hypothesis. And that will be each one will be tested in of 369 00:22:20,340 --> 00:22:22,980 course, and the one that is, you know, best fit for all of the 370 00:22:22,980 --> 00:22:27,600 observed data will usually end up becoming the consensus 371 00:22:27,630 --> 00:22:30,720 theory, right? It doesn't necessarily explain everything. 372 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:32,940 And it's not necessarily correct, but it will become the 373 00:22:32,940 --> 00:22:35,550 convinced consensus until something better comes along, 374 00:22:35,580 --> 00:22:38,520 right. And so initially, there were all kinds of hypotheses 375 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:43,590 like super volcanoes throwing material for miles. It was some 376 00:22:43,590 --> 00:22:50,010 kind of form of an antimatter event. Others that said molten 377 00:22:50,250 --> 00:22:54,090 glass block that there's there's also even a loss technology and 378 00:22:54,090 --> 00:22:57,420 Aboriginal technology from civilization. So you can imagine 379 00:22:57,420 --> 00:22:59,880 there was this whole list of various one by one, they were 380 00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:03,990 kind of knocked out. And what we ended up with was two competing 381 00:23:03,990 --> 00:23:08,970 hypotheses. One was a champion, mostly by NASA engineers and 382 00:23:08,970 --> 00:23:14,580 rocket scientists. So this was the idea that the material was a 383 00:23:14,580 --> 00:23:18,930 volcanic glass that had been impacted by an asteroid on the 384 00:23:18,930 --> 00:23:22,980 moon, and that this glass had been displaced. And it'll either 385 00:23:23,010 --> 00:23:26,250 come across to earth as a, you know, as a cluster or as a block 386 00:23:26,460 --> 00:23:30,300 for some kind of debris cloud. And then weighing down across 387 00:23:30,300 --> 00:23:33,210 the earth, it ended up in orbit, and it rained down across 388 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:37,380 Australasia, right. So that hypotheses, a lot of supporters, 389 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,740 again, a lot of very, you know, credentialed people over at NASA 390 00:23:40,740 --> 00:23:45,210 that were doing all kinds of experiments to see the how these 391 00:23:45,210 --> 00:23:47,460 glasses would have formed, you know, what speeds they've come 392 00:23:47,460 --> 00:23:51,210 in at this, sort of around the time when, really, we were just 393 00:23:51,210 --> 00:23:54,330 getting into the whole field of, you know, rockets, missiles to 394 00:23:54,330 --> 00:23:56,910 people to the moon. So these guys, you know, there was a kind 395 00:23:56,910 --> 00:23:59,670 of whole new field that opened up and they recognize that some 396 00:23:59,670 --> 00:24:03,270 of these Tektite had aerodynamic shaping, suggesting that they 397 00:24:03,270 --> 00:24:06,960 had come in from outside the atmosphere. Right, not all of 398 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,480 it, but some of them do. And then conversely, on the other 399 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,180 side of the debate, were the others who believed that this 400 00:24:12,180 --> 00:24:15,900 was some kind of terrestrial impact event where material had 401 00:24:15,900 --> 00:24:19,020 been displaced and had been either thrown through the air or 402 00:24:19,020 --> 00:24:23,010 had somehow left the atmosphere and had come back in. And that 403 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:28,740 raged as a debate for many, many years, until really until the 404 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:33,180 return and analysis of Luna materials, which led to an 405 00:24:33,180 --> 00:24:37,290 understanding that there just wasn't the kind of chemical mix 406 00:24:37,290 --> 00:24:40,950 that you required for this glass. And that Volker the ruled 407 00:24:40,950 --> 00:24:43,620 out the moon, they ruled out volcanic activity on the moon as 408 00:24:43,620 --> 00:24:47,040 well as to ancient so with the dating Artemis material, it's 409 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:51,210 788,000 years that's just too recent in terms of lunar 410 00:24:51,210 --> 00:24:52,350 volcanic activity. 411 00:24:52,710 --> 00:24:57,630 John Greenewald: So you said 780,000 years 788,000 years old 412 00:24:57,630 --> 00:25:00,570 Bruce Fenton: is the data on it. So that's really Well after we 413 00:25:00,570 --> 00:25:04,290 believe the moon's volcanic activity and ceased, so you had 414 00:25:04,290 --> 00:25:06,480 a few different factors that came together. And very good add 415 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,710 on, there's a Nobel winning tennis called Yuri, who had also 416 00:25:10,710 --> 00:25:14,430 highlighted that, even if a cloud of this debris had come 417 00:25:14,430 --> 00:25:18,660 from the moon, the sun's pool would disperse this cloud, and 418 00:25:18,660 --> 00:25:21,240 it would end up falling all around the planet. Or 419 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,810 conversely, if it was a tight cluster, it would only rain down 420 00:25:24,810 --> 00:25:27,960 around 10 Kilometer kind of string field, it'd be really 421 00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:30,660 small by time it broke up in our atmosphere here. It would be a 422 00:25:30,660 --> 00:25:33,780 small 10 kilometer long string fields. He said, neither of 423 00:25:33,780 --> 00:25:36,990 those models, could he see how you'd end up with, you know, 424 00:25:37,650 --> 00:25:40,710 Australasia being covered in this material, it even be the 425 00:25:40,710 --> 00:25:44,310 whole world, or a much smaller area, right. So there were 426 00:25:44,310 --> 00:25:46,680 several lines that led to the kind of the collapse of the 427 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:50,310 lunar origin theory. Now, as these people left the 428 00:25:50,310 --> 00:25:52,770 battlefield, you could say they said, Well, look, you know, you 429 00:25:52,770 --> 00:25:56,100 guys, you still have to explain all the anomalies, you have to 430 00:25:56,100 --> 00:25:59,670 be able to explain why some of this material has the 431 00:25:59,730 --> 00:26:03,030 indications of having been in orbit from an object that was in 432 00:26:03,030 --> 00:26:07,020 orbit. And that is broken up, and has come in at angles that 433 00:26:07,020 --> 00:26:10,650 suggested decaying orbital path, and have been reshaped secondary 434 00:26:10,650 --> 00:26:14,430 mountings. In other words, they were already cold glass spheres 435 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,730 that came in at angles that were shallow enough to allow them to 436 00:26:17,730 --> 00:26:20,820 have secondary melting rather than burning up and to land 437 00:26:20,910 --> 00:26:23,850 across Australasia. So they could see that there was, there 438 00:26:23,850 --> 00:26:27,810 was an issue there, because they could not see how an impact 439 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:32,370 would lead to not only material leaving the atmosphere, but 440 00:26:32,370 --> 00:26:35,460 coming in at these gentle angles as though they were from a 441 00:26:35,460 --> 00:26:39,510 breaking up object in orbit. So this is where it kind of, they 442 00:26:39,510 --> 00:26:41,850 kind of hide away. And then since then, really the 443 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,510 mainstream view has been that this is simply a some kind of 444 00:26:45,750 --> 00:26:49,380 anomalous melt glass that just needs a few more explanations to 445 00:26:49,380 --> 00:26:53,490 tidy up the story and move on. But it's he's never quite got to 446 00:26:53,490 --> 00:26:57,450 that there remains ongoing debates as to how that actually 447 00:26:57,930 --> 00:26:58,800 can be explained. 448 00:26:59,190 --> 00:27:01,740 John Greenewald: So is there talk then that this is a 449 00:27:01,740 --> 00:27:07,020 interstellar object that that, and, again, making sure I'm not 450 00:27:07,020 --> 00:27:10,890 skipping anything here, but versus the theories that before 451 00:27:10,890 --> 00:27:13,230 they discovered the interstellar object? It sounds like they 452 00:27:13,230 --> 00:27:18,450 never really entertained that type of explanation. But now 453 00:27:18,450 --> 00:27:21,570 fast forward to today, where we're discovering these objects 454 00:27:22,050 --> 00:27:27,000 is the is that conversation turning to that? 455 00:27:28,589 --> 00:27:30,509 Bruce Fenton: Well, I haven't seen in who's definitely has 456 00:27:30,509 --> 00:27:32,939 suggested, but one thing that's interesting is there's a paper 457 00:27:32,939 --> 00:27:37,049 that came out just a couple of weeks back in which they are 458 00:27:37,049 --> 00:27:40,709 going to look for creators from interstellar objects, you know, 459 00:27:41,399 --> 00:27:44,099 mostly is going to be on the surfaces of other, you know, 460 00:27:44,129 --> 00:27:46,739 other planets and other moons. And so you're looking at our 461 00:27:46,739 --> 00:27:50,489 moon and looking at, I imagine other planets, they haven't 462 00:27:50,489 --> 00:27:52,679 really said too much about Earth, I think the idea is that 463 00:27:52,679 --> 00:27:54,839 they're hoping to somewhere be well preserved. And obviously, 464 00:27:54,839 --> 00:27:58,469 the moon is considered a kind of almost like a repository of 465 00:27:58,469 --> 00:28:00,959 everything that's ever happened, because there's got very little 466 00:28:00,959 --> 00:28:03,809 geological activity. So you've probably heard scientists are 467 00:28:03,809 --> 00:28:05,909 saying, you know, we're gonna look for alien artifacts, we can 468 00:28:05,909 --> 00:28:09,629 look on the moon, because it's pretty unchanging. So a lot of 469 00:28:09,629 --> 00:28:11,609 focus is gonna be there. But one of the one of the things that 470 00:28:11,609 --> 00:28:14,759 they are expecting is interstellar objects, that 471 00:28:14,909 --> 00:28:19,409 impact will be going at unusually high rates of speed, 472 00:28:19,709 --> 00:28:23,249 and therefore will also create more melt glass in their 473 00:28:23,249 --> 00:28:27,539 creators than in normal impact events. That's kind of 474 00:28:27,539 --> 00:28:32,159 interesting, because in the four or five, Tech Tech student 475 00:28:32,159 --> 00:28:35,579 fields, all of those are produced vast amounts of glass. 476 00:28:35,909 --> 00:28:40,589 So I would think that somebody somewhere is probably starting 477 00:28:40,589 --> 00:28:45,449 to wonder, you know, is, is this to do with what we're seeing in 478 00:28:45,449 --> 00:28:47,849 this mysterious kind of tech type research field, 479 00:28:48,149 --> 00:28:50,519 particularly when you start putting in this link of it 480 00:28:50,519 --> 00:28:54,089 producing more glass than other impacts. And the string fields 481 00:28:54,089 --> 00:28:56,249 are very large. I mean, just to very quickly say there's, 482 00:28:56,609 --> 00:28:59,519 although the Australasian tech to string field is the biggest, 483 00:28:59,519 --> 00:29:03,029 and it's totally enormous, you can look and see there's four 484 00:29:03,029 --> 00:29:05,639 other there's a streaming field in the US, we've got the Georgia 485 00:29:05,639 --> 00:29:08,999 sites and be the sites, there's a string field in the Ivory 486 00:29:08,999 --> 00:29:12,779 Coast in Africa, there's an own mobile device, check to stream 487 00:29:12,779 --> 00:29:14,999 for motivates the best known, I imagine a lot of the orders were 488 00:29:14,999 --> 00:29:17,849 no motivates, because a very distinctive green gem looking 489 00:29:17,849 --> 00:29:21,719 material that's used in jewelry. And so and you also have 490 00:29:21,959 --> 00:29:24,509 recently the discovery of what seems to be this very small tech 491 00:29:24,509 --> 00:29:28,289 texturing field in Central America. So all of them are 492 00:29:28,289 --> 00:29:30,419 considered somewhat anomalous, because again, if you think 493 00:29:30,419 --> 00:29:34,289 about this, we've had an astonishing number of impacts on 494 00:29:34,289 --> 00:29:37,439 this planet, most of them are not recorded, we found a couple 495 00:29:37,439 --> 00:29:41,729 of 100 or so, well studied craters, you know, and in those, 496 00:29:41,909 --> 00:29:45,659 the melt glass is unlike tektites right. So then you have 497 00:29:45,659 --> 00:29:51,209 just these four or five examples of a phenomena and yet you have 498 00:29:51,239 --> 00:29:54,809 many more craters with glass. So we know something different 499 00:29:54,809 --> 00:29:57,809 happening, right. So you need from a very conservative 500 00:29:57,809 --> 00:29:59,849 conventional kind of scientific view, you would look at it and 501 00:29:59,849 --> 00:30:03,929 say A, why don't we usually see this Tektite glass with these 502 00:30:03,929 --> 00:30:09,449 quite extensive strewn fields for all of these impacts? Why is 503 00:30:09,449 --> 00:30:14,759 it only in these few? And in each of the other four cases, 504 00:30:15,179 --> 00:30:18,209 have the Australasian, this, there has been at least 505 00:30:18,239 --> 00:30:21,899 tentative links to a crater. Now, I don't think in any of 506 00:30:21,899 --> 00:30:24,959 these cases, it's 100% certain that they've identified the 507 00:30:24,959 --> 00:30:28,199 crater because the glass isn't in the crater, no tektites are 508 00:30:28,199 --> 00:30:30,929 found in craters. Right? They are, they are found, in some 509 00:30:30,929 --> 00:30:36,419 cases, several 100 or even longer distances from the 510 00:30:36,419 --> 00:30:39,299 suspected impact craters. So that's a problem because of 511 00:30:39,299 --> 00:30:40,049 course, if you 512 00:30:40,049 --> 00:30:42,659 John Greenewald: don't find several 100, I'm sorry, you said 513 00:30:42,659 --> 00:30:44,669 several 100 But several 100 Watt, miles 514 00:30:45,089 --> 00:30:48,029 Bruce Fenton: 600 kilometers away safe. Oh, gotcha. Okay, one 515 00:30:48,029 --> 00:30:51,299 example. So if you have that kind of distance, of course, you 516 00:30:51,299 --> 00:30:54,599 don't get the hand in glove fit that you would normally for an 517 00:30:54,599 --> 00:30:57,329 impact event where, you know, you and I went out to a crater 518 00:30:57,329 --> 00:31:00,329 and we find glass in that crater, we were going to be 519 00:31:00,329 --> 00:31:04,049 pretty sure that that's from that impact, right. But when you 520 00:31:04,049 --> 00:31:07,259 start having to look for the impact event that you think has 521 00:31:07,259 --> 00:31:10,379 created some glass, and you have to travel hundreds of kilometers 522 00:31:10,379 --> 00:31:13,619 to find a crater, straightaway, that link is becoming more 523 00:31:13,619 --> 00:31:16,889 tentative, right. So now you're trying to get a very close 524 00:31:16,889 --> 00:31:20,669 chemical match between the crater rock and this glass. So 525 00:31:20,699 --> 00:31:24,359 even in the cases where there's, I think fairly good arguments 526 00:31:24,359 --> 00:31:27,779 for them being impacts. We know something extraordinary has 527 00:31:27,779 --> 00:31:31,859 happened to propel this debris so far. And for none of it to be 528 00:31:31,859 --> 00:31:36,419 in the crater. And for it to be melted in this way that makes it 529 00:31:36,449 --> 00:31:41,819 resemble artificial glass or volcanic glass, knowing that it 530 00:31:41,849 --> 00:31:44,639 isn't what supposedly not artificial, and is definitely 531 00:31:44,639 --> 00:31:48,329 not volcanic. So then we have the problem to say, well, what 532 00:31:48,359 --> 00:31:52,679 is going on here? Now one explanation, it might be that 533 00:31:52,679 --> 00:31:55,739 these are interstellar objects, that they are coming in far 534 00:31:55,739 --> 00:31:59,909 faster than normal impacts. And that that's why we're seeing 535 00:31:59,909 --> 00:32:02,579 something else happening. Because this is a class of 536 00:32:02,579 --> 00:32:06,179 objects that were unknown. And nobody to my knowledge, apart 537 00:32:06,179 --> 00:32:08,879 from seeing myself talking about it has actually kind of said I 538 00:32:08,879 --> 00:32:11,699 hadn't seen any, you know, even spective articles or papers 539 00:32:11,699 --> 00:32:13,589 suggesting that, but it's kind of funny. So I would think that 540 00:32:13,589 --> 00:32:18,419 now that we know, since 2017, we know that these are legitimate 541 00:32:18,419 --> 00:32:22,019 objects. We've got, you know, Avi Loeb going as far as saying 542 00:32:22,019 --> 00:32:25,439 maybe they're, you know, alien probes into cases, and that 543 00:32:25,889 --> 00:32:28,709 perhaps there's material on Earth that we can recover. So 544 00:32:28,709 --> 00:32:30,809 even though all of that's happening, I'm kind of 545 00:32:30,809 --> 00:32:33,239 surprised, we haven't seen people saying, well, let's look 546 00:32:33,239 --> 00:32:36,989 at the known or theoretically known impacts. Are any of these 547 00:32:37,439 --> 00:32:42,359 unusual? And do any of them seem to produce more glass? So that 548 00:32:42,419 --> 00:32:45,059 to me that it seems like a no brainer that you would at least 549 00:32:45,059 --> 00:32:50,099 be looking at these rare types of glass associated with strange 550 00:32:50,099 --> 00:32:53,369 events. So that's even before you get to where I'm suggesting, 551 00:32:53,369 --> 00:32:55,649 and maybe I'll be low that some of these interstellar objects 552 00:32:55,649 --> 00:32:59,579 are alien, I just think that we should be now revisiting known 553 00:32:59,729 --> 00:33:03,809 geological events, right? And saying, Okay, we've got a new 554 00:33:03,809 --> 00:33:06,809 class of objects. Do we have anything strange in the 555 00:33:06,809 --> 00:33:10,649 geological record, that might suggest that we have some of 556 00:33:10,649 --> 00:33:15,059 these impacting in the past, or arriving here, at least, I think 557 00:33:15,059 --> 00:33:17,699 that these are obvious candidates personally, 558 00:33:17,699 --> 00:33:19,919 especially when we deal with this idea that they produce more 559 00:33:19,919 --> 00:33:23,279 glass, because in all these cases, there's an extraordinary, 560 00:33:23,369 --> 00:33:27,089 extraordinary amount of this melt glass that's been found. So 561 00:33:27,239 --> 00:33:30,629 and on top of this, another paper that came out about just a 562 00:33:30,629 --> 00:33:35,129 couple months ago, was asking the question, how often would 563 00:33:35,129 --> 00:33:37,499 interstellar objects pass through the solar system? 564 00:33:37,709 --> 00:33:41,909 Because it's really a big question. So based on a few 565 00:33:41,909 --> 00:33:44,669 known factors, and of course, we've got three of these now 566 00:33:45,149 --> 00:33:49,139 known so they can start to make some kind of calculations, we've 567 00:33:49,139 --> 00:33:52,829 already had calculation of the number that must exist for them 568 00:33:52,829 --> 00:33:55,619 to if they are natural for how many that they seem to come 569 00:33:55,619 --> 00:33:57,839 here, as we discussed earlier. So they've started to do with 570 00:33:57,839 --> 00:34:01,409 crunch the numbers on this. And the paper that I saw suggested 571 00:34:01,409 --> 00:34:05,609 that around seven interstellar objects a year should pass 572 00:34:05,609 --> 00:34:08,069 through the inner solar system. So not just with the entire 573 00:34:08,069 --> 00:34:11,009 solar system, but the inner solar system where the earth is, 574 00:34:11,339 --> 00:34:15,149 you know, somewhat close enough to be seen, or maybe have a 575 00:34:15,149 --> 00:34:18,329 probe sent to. Now that's kind of interesting few take that 576 00:34:18,329 --> 00:34:23,069 back to the beginning of Earth's history. Well, that seems to be 577 00:34:23,069 --> 00:34:27,449 like over 30 billion of these objects that have passed through 578 00:34:27,449 --> 00:34:32,129 this way. Right. So it doesn't take any big leaps to think that 579 00:34:32,129 --> 00:34:34,739 some of those have impacted with the earth. So you think 30 580 00:34:34,739 --> 00:34:38,279 billion objects, we're going to have had some of these, let's 581 00:34:38,279 --> 00:34:41,999 say, a few 100, even right, that have come close enough to either 582 00:34:41,999 --> 00:34:45,539 break up in the atmosphere or have impacted directly and have 583 00:34:45,539 --> 00:34:48,989 got debris somewhere on the planet. So we would expect to 584 00:34:48,989 --> 00:34:51,599 see signs of that in the geological record. Now if 585 00:34:51,599 --> 00:34:55,259 everyone starts to sweep through saying, Okay, well we know 70 586 00:34:55,259 --> 00:34:57,839 are coming through. We know a certain percentage of those must 587 00:34:57,839 --> 00:35:02,669 hit. Is there anything in locating strange impacts or 588 00:35:03,479 --> 00:35:06,989 objects are broken up in orbit, anything like that, that seems 589 00:35:06,989 --> 00:35:11,519 anomalous, I would say tektites five in the whole history of 590 00:35:11,519 --> 00:35:13,229 five dreamfields in the whole history of the planet that we 591 00:35:13,229 --> 00:35:17,219 know of that would stand out straightaway as as odd. So I 592 00:35:17,249 --> 00:35:21,299 hope that gives you some context to why the whole field really 593 00:35:21,539 --> 00:35:25,559 is, I think crying out for a rethink, even though I'm focused 594 00:35:25,559 --> 00:35:29,039 on Australasian tektites for a couple of reasons, I don't like 595 00:35:29,039 --> 00:35:31,469 a split, I don't I can go online. If you want me to stop 596 00:35:31,469 --> 00:35:34,079 them from another, I can explain why I feel that they're more 597 00:35:34,079 --> 00:35:34,679 interesting. 598 00:35:35,190 --> 00:35:37,560 John Greenewald: Well, yes. And that actually kind of leads into 599 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:39,660 the question I've been wanting to ask is that you went over the 600 00:35:39,660 --> 00:35:42,570 different fields on the planet? And I know you touched on 601 00:35:42,570 --> 00:35:45,690 briefly, but is the one the field that you're talking about 602 00:35:45,690 --> 00:35:49,620 and more focused on? Is it set so far apart from the others 603 00:35:49,620 --> 00:35:52,920 that you feel that that leans towards a possibility of an 604 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,650 interstellar object? And the others do not? Or are you 605 00:35:55,650 --> 00:35:59,340 proposing that all of them that you went through all of the I 606 00:35:59,340 --> 00:36:04,980 think five, you said there was five or so that every event of 607 00:36:05,010 --> 00:36:09,570 that coincides with these fields may represent an interstellar 608 00:36:09,570 --> 00:36:12,960 object? And it sounds like maybe you can answer that was kind of 609 00:36:13,140 --> 00:36:15,570 differentiating why you're so focused on this one? 610 00:36:16,260 --> 00:36:18,690 Bruce Fenton: Absolutely. Yeah. So my, my strong suspicion is 611 00:36:18,690 --> 00:36:23,820 that all five are associated with insert objects. I have my 612 00:36:23,820 --> 00:36:26,370 paper focuses only on the Australasian, because that's how 613 00:36:26,370 --> 00:36:29,580 he's kind of got into the topic was in that area, but there's a 614 00:36:29,580 --> 00:36:31,530 lot of reasons to suspect they all are interstellar objects. 615 00:36:31,530 --> 00:36:35,430 Part of that is because all of them involve part of the 616 00:36:35,430 --> 00:36:41,040 composition is a kind of a rare of chemicals that you wouldn't 617 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:45,900 expect to turn up in five rare impact events, right? So it's 618 00:36:45,900 --> 00:36:48,060 like me saying, okay, that there's, if you imagine there's 619 00:36:49,230 --> 00:36:53,580 half a dozen places on Earth, where you have metal x now, and 620 00:36:53,580 --> 00:36:57,090 you find that there's these five or six impacts and some strange 621 00:36:57,090 --> 00:37:01,350 objects, and all of them have metal x. Right, you're gonna be 622 00:37:01,380 --> 00:37:04,050 scratching your head thinking, what's the chances that five 623 00:37:04,050 --> 00:37:08,400 Unusual Incidents all happen on sites on the earth that have 624 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:12,300 that metal x? So is it more likely that that happened, or 625 00:37:12,300 --> 00:37:16,020 that the object contained metal x? Right? Because then you're 626 00:37:16,020 --> 00:37:18,540 thinking all of these strange objects involve a compound, you 627 00:37:18,540 --> 00:37:22,650 wouldn't expect to be there in most impact events, because it's 628 00:37:22,650 --> 00:37:27,270 rare on the Earth's surface, to find it in all of them, again, 629 00:37:27,270 --> 00:37:30,900 indicates to me that that's part of the content of the object is 630 00:37:30,900 --> 00:37:35,040 not material from the Earth's surface. And, again, this isn't 631 00:37:35,220 --> 00:37:38,100 my thinking this is you know, I've read that in other studies 632 00:37:38,100 --> 00:37:41,010 where there's been highlighted that, that seems extraordinarily 633 00:37:41,010 --> 00:37:44,220 unlikely. So in other words, this must be part of the 634 00:37:44,220 --> 00:37:48,600 impactor. And so if they're all containing this rare material we 635 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,510 don't normally see in asteroids, comets, and he's only rarely 636 00:37:51,510 --> 00:37:54,360 found on your surface. That's another indicator that we're 637 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,490 dealing with something that doesn't have the typical 638 00:37:56,490 --> 00:38:00,270 composition of known asteroids and comets. We expect 639 00:38:00,300 --> 00:38:03,990 interstellar comets and asteroids to have a different 640 00:38:03,990 --> 00:38:07,020 composition because they formed in an alien solar systems, 641 00:38:07,020 --> 00:38:10,020 right? So again, these are the kinds of clues that we're 642 00:38:10,020 --> 00:38:13,830 dealing with something else. Now Australasian Tektite is 643 00:38:13,830 --> 00:38:16,530 particularly interesting, because apart from being the 644 00:38:16,530 --> 00:38:20,730 largest strewn field, by far, you know, stretching 12,000 645 00:38:20,730 --> 00:38:25,440 kilometers, which just immense, involving possibly, I think 646 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,620 there's one one in one calculator, so it's maybe up to 647 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:33,330 like 10 trillion tons of debris. I mean, that's just wild. Yeah, 648 00:38:33,330 --> 00:38:37,020 absolutely massive debris field, that there's something different 649 00:38:37,020 --> 00:38:39,450 has happened here. And this is partly because we have no, 650 00:38:39,510 --> 00:38:42,420 there's no creator associated with it. So that's been a 651 00:38:42,420 --> 00:38:44,220 mystery for a long time, because 652 00:38:45,780 --> 00:38:48,420 depending on your account, whose estimates this should involve a 653 00:38:48,420 --> 00:38:52,500 creator of somewhere between 10 and 100 kilometers across, and 654 00:38:52,500 --> 00:38:55,860 it should be fairly young. So this is even to give some 655 00:38:55,860 --> 00:38:58,620 plausibility to it, we've been impacts material, that would 656 00:38:58,620 --> 00:39:02,850 have been quite a large crater, you'd have to have sufficient 657 00:39:02,850 --> 00:39:06,660 force to break a hole in the atmosphere to essentially punch 658 00:39:06,660 --> 00:39:10,230 through the atmosphere, have a vacuum kind of filled holes and 659 00:39:10,530 --> 00:39:13,560 fill in kind of vacuum filled, but they're essentially this 660 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:17,820 hole we punched through material that escapes through the vacuum, 661 00:39:17,940 --> 00:39:21,510 right or travels through vacuum, and can move either further, 662 00:39:22,110 --> 00:39:24,810 further horizontally, or can move all the way up into the 663 00:39:24,810 --> 00:39:28,260 atmosphere. Now, it's important that you have vacuum because 664 00:39:28,590 --> 00:39:32,490 when you have an impact the material no matter how fast, 665 00:39:32,490 --> 00:39:35,580 it's going against, you got hypervelocity impact, as to say 666 00:39:35,580 --> 00:39:38,220 rock is thrown out of that impact of these unbelievable 667 00:39:38,220 --> 00:39:41,220 speeds. So it could be eight kilometers a second or so. And 668 00:39:41,220 --> 00:39:45,000 that these will these will travel pushing up against air, 669 00:39:45,420 --> 00:39:49,410 right and the lower the angle that they are traveling at the 670 00:39:49,410 --> 00:39:52,860 denser the atmosphere of the Earth. So you know a very acute 671 00:39:52,860 --> 00:39:58,080 angle, the density of the air is slowing down the ejector faster. 672 00:39:58,770 --> 00:40:01,500 Right and if you go to them obtuse angles, of course, they 673 00:40:01,500 --> 00:40:04,590 have to go up further to travel the same distance, they are 674 00:40:04,590 --> 00:40:06,660 traveling much further, right? Because you're going in this 675 00:40:06,720 --> 00:40:11,250 huge arc upwards and back down. So in both in both ways, we're 676 00:40:11,250 --> 00:40:14,160 looking at a problem. So the calculation of the alt, the 677 00:40:14,250 --> 00:40:18,570 optimum angle for maximum spread is about 45 degrees, but 678 00:40:18,570 --> 00:40:22,650 firstly, 30 to 45 degrees for maximum displacement to a 679 00:40:22,650 --> 00:40:26,310 further distance, right. But even then, it's considered that 680 00:40:26,310 --> 00:40:30,570 to be almost impossible, or super extreme difficulties for 681 00:40:30,570 --> 00:40:35,370 any this material to travel further than 600 kilometers. So 682 00:40:35,370 --> 00:40:41,070 you rarely find any melt or ejector that is further than 600 683 00:40:41,070 --> 00:40:44,130 kilometers from its source crater. So straightaway, you 684 00:40:44,130 --> 00:40:49,050 have a limitation there. Right. So they know that this cannot be 685 00:40:49,050 --> 00:40:52,320 material that has simply been thrown through the air and has 686 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,980 traveled 10,000 kilometers, that's totally impossible. And 687 00:40:55,980 --> 00:40:59,970 that's accepted. Okay. So there has to be an exotic solution. 688 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:03,330 And one of these Arctic solutions is this whole say that 689 00:41:03,330 --> 00:41:07,470 somehow this materialism plasma storm or this vacuum area, has 690 00:41:07,470 --> 00:41:10,350 traveled either conventionally horizontal, and that's a problem 691 00:41:10,350 --> 00:41:15,510 is that if it's traveling, say at 30 degrees through the air, 692 00:41:15,720 --> 00:41:17,850 and you've got an area of vacuum, it will continue 693 00:41:17,850 --> 00:41:21,870 traveling at these colossal speeds. But when it impacts, it 694 00:41:21,870 --> 00:41:24,120 will essentially be impacting like a small amount of like 695 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:26,820 meteorite, so just go straight to the ground, you're mixing the 696 00:41:26,820 --> 00:41:29,430 material, you'll melt the rock, you have a small crater, you 697 00:41:29,430 --> 00:41:32,310 wouldn't find little pieces of glass, you wouldn't find these 698 00:41:32,310 --> 00:41:36,090 conveniently shaped, pure pieces of glass, they would just impact 699 00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:39,390 and melt and, you know, cause small holes and stuff. So they 700 00:41:39,390 --> 00:41:42,120 know it can't be that. So all you're left with then is the 701 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:46,140 material has left the atmosphere and has ended up going up in a 702 00:41:46,140 --> 00:41:52,140 kind of an arc and has come back down. And as rain down. That's 703 00:41:52,140 --> 00:41:54,780 the only this kind of exotic solution. And there's there's a 704 00:41:54,780 --> 00:41:58,440 whole series of problems with achieving that, even for smaller 705 00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:02,100 debris, let alone what maybe trillions of tons. And in some 706 00:42:02,100 --> 00:42:06,060 cases, these pieces are like 20 kilos, there's some chunks of 707 00:42:06,060 --> 00:42:09,570 like 20 kilo work on Milan, Nong Tektite, right associated debris 708 00:42:09,570 --> 00:42:13,590 field. Other pieces, some of the rounded pieces are up to about, 709 00:42:14,100 --> 00:42:18,900 like 10 kilos, but this doesn't quite large tektites. So again, 710 00:42:18,900 --> 00:42:22,140 we're not talking just about, you know, tiny droplets, these 711 00:42:22,140 --> 00:42:25,350 are quite significant pieces as well, for something like that to 712 00:42:25,860 --> 00:42:30,120 successfully travel all the way up to space, is that's quite 713 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,760 extraordinary. And then for quite a you know, this amount of 714 00:42:32,790 --> 00:42:36,600 debris to do that is, again, is problematic. So that's why 715 00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:40,440 there's been this raging debate for years and years as to how 716 00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:42,660 that's achieved. And then on top of that has to come at these 717 00:42:42,660 --> 00:42:44,670 gentle angles, right, so it's not just coming up and then 718 00:42:44,670 --> 00:42:47,940 coming back down at the same angle it went up, it somehow 719 00:42:47,940 --> 00:42:51,780 ended up in an orbital path. And coming in angles that are almost 720 00:42:51,780 --> 00:42:54,720 horizontal to the plane of the planet, it very much like 721 00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,770 satellites that are coming down, you know, slowly losing height, 722 00:42:59,130 --> 00:43:01,350 there's been quite a number of sort of mathematicians or 723 00:43:01,350 --> 00:43:04,620 physicists that just doesn't seem to add up, they can't see 724 00:43:04,620 --> 00:43:07,680 how that would result in that kind of violent event. 725 00:43:07,980 --> 00:43:10,530 John Greenewald: And that's, that's there's going kind of 726 00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:14,880 mainstream scientific theory that there, this stuff went up 727 00:43:14,910 --> 00:43:21,270 from the earth came back down that go kind of betraying what 728 00:43:21,270 --> 00:43:24,180 we know about science and math and angles and so on is not 729 00:43:24,180 --> 00:43:27,840 necessarily possible. So, right, making sure that I'm on the same 730 00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:31,290 page. That's the going theory, but there's so many issues with 731 00:43:31,290 --> 00:43:33,870 it, it's more plausible that something came from way out 732 00:43:33,870 --> 00:43:39,060 there, at a bigger speed of immense size, came here and 733 00:43:39,060 --> 00:43:41,100 essentially crashed or impacted. 734 00:43:41,220 --> 00:43:44,670 Bruce Fenton: Well, I mean, it's basically it's more parsimonious 735 00:43:44,670 --> 00:43:49,530 with the data is that something was in orbit. Now, where that 736 00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:52,110 something came from and how it ended up there is the question, 737 00:43:52,110 --> 00:43:55,170 but it the more parsimonious solution is you have a large 738 00:43:55,170 --> 00:44:01,230 something that is glassy, already glassy, and the then 739 00:44:01,230 --> 00:44:04,950 breaks up in orbit for some unknown reason. And that that 740 00:44:04,980 --> 00:44:09,270 debris continues traveling in that same orbital path. But 741 00:44:09,270 --> 00:44:12,360 coming down gently so you can imagine so if we had like, say 742 00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:17,820 the ISS, blew up in orbit, that pieces of debris will carry on 743 00:44:17,820 --> 00:44:20,880 traveling, you know, some of them will be sent upwards, so 744 00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:23,820 maybe downwards, obviously, in an explosive event, but some 745 00:44:23,820 --> 00:44:27,090 parts of that will continue round in a decaying orbit. 746 00:44:27,450 --> 00:44:30,780 Right? And eventually those is going to come down. Okay? So 747 00:44:31,020 --> 00:44:34,860 it's more parsimonious that we have some kind of object up that 748 00:44:35,220 --> 00:44:38,490 that is broken up. And what we are seeing is its debris field 749 00:44:38,490 --> 00:44:42,120 as it travels between like Indochina and Antarctica, 750 00:44:42,150 --> 00:44:44,430 traveling that kind of tracks you've got the debris field as 751 00:44:44,430 --> 00:44:48,510 raining down. So an initial explosive event over Indochina 752 00:44:48,540 --> 00:44:51,960 where we have a clustering of the Tech Tech debris, which is 753 00:44:51,990 --> 00:44:55,770 around Philippines, Thailand, that area. There's another 754 00:44:55,770 --> 00:44:59,700 clustering of debris in southern Australie seven Australia, but 755 00:44:59,700 --> 00:45:02,220 you've got More the particularly the button tektites, which are 756 00:45:02,220 --> 00:45:05,130 these aerodynamically shaped tech types that definitely came 757 00:45:05,130 --> 00:45:08,970 in from space. And then you have some more micro tech types and 758 00:45:08,970 --> 00:45:11,550 on top to get the micro tech types traveled further, just so 759 00:45:11,550 --> 00:45:13,980 we know, that's the end of the debris field, basically these 760 00:45:14,250 --> 00:45:16,920 miniscule tech types that are found in the ice and Antarctica. 761 00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:21,090 So it looks more like an object that's breaking up as it moves 762 00:45:21,090 --> 00:45:25,830 between into China and Australia. And if we infer that 763 00:45:25,830 --> 00:45:30,240 this, there is no known mechanism for creating this kind 764 00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:33,300 of glass, right, there's a couple of, again, exotic 765 00:45:33,570 --> 00:45:37,350 hypotheses out there from scientists. Right, but they are 766 00:45:37,590 --> 00:45:41,580 definitely exotic. They're not accepted. You know, there are 767 00:45:41,580 --> 00:45:45,330 just hypotheses as to how somehow you might achieve this 768 00:45:45,330 --> 00:45:48,900 mount without an extended period in something like a caldera or 769 00:45:48,900 --> 00:45:53,160 in a, you know, artificial process. So of course, there's 770 00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:56,070 going to be offering these, but the most parsimonious is this 771 00:45:56,070 --> 00:45:58,320 really late, it's already glassy. And there's none of the 772 00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,290 NASA guys kind of put this out there. Even back in the 60s, 773 00:46:01,290 --> 00:46:04,500 they're like, Well, you know, it seems to be that we already had 774 00:46:04,500 --> 00:46:08,190 a glassy object. And that's why they get this is looking back, 775 00:46:08,190 --> 00:46:11,340 this is why they thought there was volcanic glass from the 776 00:46:11,340 --> 00:46:15,870 moon, because they were trying to understand how you'd have pre 777 00:46:15,870 --> 00:46:19,890 existing glassy material coming in cold, you know, entering the 778 00:46:19,890 --> 00:46:22,620 atmosphere, and then going through secondary melting. So 779 00:46:22,620 --> 00:46:25,080 they know it's already been melted. It's already hard, it's 780 00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:29,190 already find homogenous glass. And now it's melting again, in 781 00:46:29,190 --> 00:46:32,820 the upper atmosphere and raining down. So their hypothesis was, 782 00:46:33,030 --> 00:46:36,240 it was mostly volcanic blast from the moon, because that was 783 00:46:36,240 --> 00:46:39,270 about as wild as their thinking was gonna go. Now, I've only 784 00:46:39,270 --> 00:46:42,990 ever seen one, one paper where someone said, Well, you know, 785 00:46:43,170 --> 00:46:46,800 could it have been something from further out? And it somehow 786 00:46:46,890 --> 00:46:49,440 came in and ended up in orbits and all sorts of problems that 787 00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,410 night? How did it get stuck in orbit? Why would that something 788 00:46:52,410 --> 00:46:55,770 then explode in orbit? And so they almost as a passing fought, 789 00:46:56,130 --> 00:46:59,580 they just, you know, put that out there and discount it? And 790 00:46:59,580 --> 00:47:02,640 again, I think that was because at the time, nobody really 791 00:47:02,940 --> 00:47:06,270 believed in these interstellar objects. You know, I mean, so 792 00:47:06,570 --> 00:47:10,230 what object would that be, you know, nothing like that. So I 793 00:47:10,230 --> 00:47:16,440 think that the idea of an alien glassy body was so far out that 794 00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:20,640 it was much easier to hypothesize lunar material. And 795 00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:23,490 the other problem as well is that when you look at the the 796 00:47:23,490 --> 00:47:26,790 evidence of cosmic ray bombardment, which like any 797 00:47:26,790 --> 00:47:28,920 object is happening, solar system, right, is bombarded with 798 00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:32,760 cosmic rays. But we can, we can measure that we can see that 799 00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:34,860 it's been up there for like millions of years, or billions 800 00:47:34,860 --> 00:47:38,520 of years, right. Nearly all the objects up there have been up 801 00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:42,000 there for vast periods flying round and round, right. So when 802 00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,220 they measured it in these glasses, we found it was it was 803 00:47:44,250 --> 00:47:47,760 very low, suggesting that it hadn't been in space for very 804 00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:50,280 long, certainly not long enough to indicate that it was an 805 00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:52,560 asteroid or comment, they've been spinning around for 806 00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:55,500 millions of years, that maybe only a few failed Max, a few 807 00:47:55,500 --> 00:47:57,840 1000 years. So there's nothing like again, there's no object 808 00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:01,200 like that. They're all really old. So if it will, it has to 809 00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:05,520 have formed in the earth Moon system, or nearby to this glass 810 00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:09,510 has to form somewhere that so again, that limited it. So it 811 00:48:09,510 --> 00:48:15,000 had to be either the moon or the earth, right. So what could the 812 00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:19,020 third option be well, that the object has formed, it blown up 813 00:48:19,050 --> 00:48:22,230 melted somewhere between the Earth and the Moon, but it 814 00:48:22,230 --> 00:48:26,880 hasn't formed on the moon, it cannot come in. As it was from 815 00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:31,800 space, retaining its levels of cosmic ray data, it's been it we 816 00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:35,220 set. Now that would happen of course, in it heating event, or 817 00:48:35,430 --> 00:48:39,720 if the object shell had been penetrated by cosmic rays, but 818 00:48:39,720 --> 00:48:42,480 then it melted, that's all gonna be mixed in and you won't go to 819 00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:45,570 detect the true age of the object anymore. So again, these 820 00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:49,950 these will point to it being not from the moon, but glassy, and 821 00:48:49,950 --> 00:48:55,620 having been melted in space. And then in orbit, crumbling apart 822 00:48:55,650 --> 00:48:59,250 pieces coming down. Now. So that leaves this idea that well, what 823 00:48:59,250 --> 00:49:02,310 kind of object can that be? Because we don't know of 824 00:49:02,310 --> 00:49:05,400 anything like that. There's no, there's no comets or asteroids 825 00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,370 that are made of glass. I mean, that's the bottom line. We, if 826 00:49:08,370 --> 00:49:13,050 this was a glassy body, it's either a natural object that we 827 00:49:13,050 --> 00:49:16,230 don't know of, you know, that's come in from interstellar space. 828 00:49:16,230 --> 00:49:19,170 There's nothing like that known in the solar system. Like, it's 829 00:49:19,170 --> 00:49:22,530 got about 75% silica, the highest silica content of an 830 00:49:22,530 --> 00:49:26,040 asteroid is around 60%. That's unknown to have higher silica 831 00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:29,730 content. So again, that's strange. And then if it is glas, 832 00:49:29,730 --> 00:49:33,870 T, well, there's no objects that are just glass flying around out 833 00:49:33,870 --> 00:49:36,900 there. So if this has come from somewhere else, then either 834 00:49:36,900 --> 00:49:41,340 there's a category of objects in interstellar space that are 835 00:49:41,340 --> 00:49:44,880 natural and glassy and have formed in some way we don't 836 00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:48,720 understand. Right? Which is possible. Or, 837 00:49:48,930 --> 00:49:51,630 John Greenewald: and we rarely see them as I would. Is that 838 00:49:51,630 --> 00:49:54,780 where you're going with that that? If it is natural, then it 839 00:49:54,780 --> 00:49:56,610 is incredibly rare, 840 00:49:57,450 --> 00:49:59,340 Bruce Fenton: incredibly and incredibly strange, because then 841 00:49:59,550 --> 00:50:03,570 we go well, process would lead to a basically a glass asteroid, 842 00:50:03,780 --> 00:50:06,510 you know, like a glass, a big chunk of glass flying around 843 00:50:06,510 --> 00:50:09,600 space. I mean, it's just a really implicitly weird object. 844 00:50:10,020 --> 00:50:13,260 So if it is natural, that's amazing. Don't get me wrong, I 845 00:50:13,260 --> 00:50:15,660 think that'd be amazing to find out there was a whole class of 846 00:50:15,660 --> 00:50:18,000 objects that were like big chunks of glass flying around 847 00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:20,610 interstellar space, right? I mean, I'm interested in cool 848 00:50:20,610 --> 00:50:23,010 natural discoveries, like, I'm sure you are a lot of other 849 00:50:23,010 --> 00:50:26,550 people. But of course, the other possibility there is it's not 850 00:50:26,550 --> 00:50:29,370 natural. And if it's not natural, if it's something 851 00:50:29,370 --> 00:50:32,070 that's been find and made homogenous in an artificial 852 00:50:32,070 --> 00:50:35,160 process, and we didn't do it, then we're talking about 853 00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:37,320 something really amazing, because then we're talking about 854 00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:41,160 probably some kind of artificial, intelligent probe, 855 00:50:41,190 --> 00:50:44,700 because my thinking here is that if you look at the kind of 856 00:50:44,700 --> 00:50:48,210 cutting edge thinkers in the field, in terms of Seti and 857 00:50:48,210 --> 00:50:52,110 whatnot, they think that most alien civilizations will be post 858 00:50:52,110 --> 00:50:56,010 biological. That is that they will have transitioned to become 859 00:50:56,130 --> 00:51:00,480 cybernetic or silica or artificial life forms. And if 860 00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:03,210 not, that, that they may have gone extinct left their 861 00:51:03,210 --> 00:51:06,930 technologies behind. And almost certainly that first contact 862 00:51:06,930 --> 00:51:10,320 with any alien intelligence will be with its technologies. And 863 00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:13,410 again, this one, of course, Abby lobes thinking that we are most 864 00:51:13,410 --> 00:51:17,490 likely to find aliens by their debris or their probes, right? 865 00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:20,400 So if we're going to look for something like that, what might 866 00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:24,570 we look for? Well, an alien Bracewell probe, or which is 867 00:51:24,570 --> 00:51:27,450 essentially an artificial intelligence that is autonomous, 868 00:51:27,510 --> 00:51:31,740 sent out to explore, we would expect that to be highly silica, 869 00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:36,630 basically, like a roving silica network, right? So if those are 870 00:51:36,630 --> 00:51:40,170 out there, they can also be of almost unlimited size, there's 871 00:51:40,170 --> 00:51:42,750 no particular reason why we they should be timed, they might be 872 00:51:42,750 --> 00:51:45,030 tiny, like micro probes that we're looking at doing, we're 873 00:51:45,030 --> 00:51:47,010 sending out, you know, the little box probes to explore the 874 00:51:47,010 --> 00:51:51,000 solar system. But they could also be enormous silica brains, 875 00:51:51,240 --> 00:51:54,210 right? They're just flying around exploring, they're quasi 876 00:51:54,210 --> 00:51:56,790 immortal. And you know, surveying the soul that you're 877 00:51:56,790 --> 00:52:00,510 surveying the Galaxy on behalf of their biological creators, or 878 00:52:00,510 --> 00:52:04,890 their silica creators who knows. And that these things would be 879 00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:08,640 high in silica content, they would imagine behave in strange 880 00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:11,490 ways like parking around interesting planets, planets 881 00:52:11,490 --> 00:52:14,430 with biospheres like Earth, right? Because you think of all 882 00:52:14,430 --> 00:52:17,280 the planets that we know of Earth is the only one so far 883 00:52:17,490 --> 00:52:21,180 that we have confirmed a biosphere on it. Right? So I 884 00:52:21,180 --> 00:52:23,730 hear a lot of scientists and skeptics saying, Oh, what's 885 00:52:23,730 --> 00:52:27,420 interesting about Earth? Why would anybody come here? And you 886 00:52:27,420 --> 00:52:29,880 know, I'm sure you've seen these kinds of dismissive arguments. 887 00:52:29,880 --> 00:52:32,490 And I was, and that's really strange, because, you know, when 888 00:52:32,490 --> 00:52:36,990 we look out into the cosmos, we find no, so far, no planets with 889 00:52:36,990 --> 00:52:40,890 identify or biospheres. So wouldn't that be interesting? 890 00:52:40,890 --> 00:52:44,160 You know, if you're an alien scientist, and you notice Earth, 891 00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:47,520 and you notice that it's got an oxygen signature, right, the 892 00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:51,120 oxygen signature of Earth has been visible remotely for 2 893 00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:54,600 billion years, right. So there's plenty of time for someone out 894 00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:58,170 there to notice that there's probably life here, then you can 895 00:52:58,170 --> 00:53:01,230 send one of your artificial probes, you know, there needs to 896 00:53:01,230 --> 00:53:03,330 be different civilizations sending them here in that time, 897 00:53:03,330 --> 00:53:06,150 that's a lot of time don't need faster light speeds or any of 898 00:53:06,150 --> 00:53:09,180 that. Right. So all those items go out the window that you need 899 00:53:09,180 --> 00:53:12,480 to have these superfast, you don't just send a probe. So 900 00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:15,690 let's say half Lightspeed from wherever you are in the galaxy, 901 00:53:15,930 --> 00:53:19,170 right? So that's going to have plenty of time to get here. And 902 00:53:19,170 --> 00:53:21,450 these things then could be autonomous, that's who they can 903 00:53:21,450 --> 00:53:24,390 monitor on their own, you know, they can think on their own 904 00:53:24,390 --> 00:53:27,270 monitor, do whatever it is they've been programmed to do. 905 00:53:27,780 --> 00:53:31,050 And in one scenario that I've seen, proposed, I don't know if 906 00:53:31,050 --> 00:53:34,650 it goes by race for himself, but there's certainly a hypothesis 907 00:53:34,650 --> 00:53:38,370 that they might even be programmed to make contact. And 908 00:53:38,370 --> 00:53:41,430 that you know, a certain level of a civilization development. 909 00:53:41,640 --> 00:53:44,700 One of these things could just, you know, fire up, let's say 910 00:53:44,700 --> 00:53:48,570 that we send out radio signals into the cosmos. And that one of 911 00:53:48,570 --> 00:53:52,770 these is sitting in the asteroid belt. It picks up those waves, 912 00:53:52,950 --> 00:53:56,220 it activates the programming and it just rendezvoused with Earth, 913 00:53:56,220 --> 00:53:58,710 you know, opens communications, you know, welcome to the 914 00:53:58,710 --> 00:53:59,610 Galactic Civil, you know, 915 00:54:01,020 --> 00:54:04,080 because you've reached a detectable level of civilization 916 00:54:04,110 --> 00:54:07,170 that it's been instructed to look for. And it's just hovering 917 00:54:07,170 --> 00:54:10,470 around the only planets with biospheres. Now, I guess that 918 00:54:10,470 --> 00:54:12,960 goes back to sci fi. But if you think about it, it's not really 919 00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:16,800 that strange is exactly the kind of thing we would do. Right as 920 00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:20,010 intelligent beings, searching the cosmos, sending our probes, 921 00:54:20,310 --> 00:54:23,370 you know, these are things that we are aiming to do. So this has 922 00:54:23,370 --> 00:54:26,460 the kind of the, what I would say is the hallmarks of 923 00:54:26,460 --> 00:54:30,330 something like that, an object that is seemingly have a 924 00:54:30,330 --> 00:54:34,680 strange, strange composition of glassy silica composition, as 925 00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:37,770 well as various metals, but you know, 75%, silica attempt and 926 00:54:37,770 --> 00:54:40,650 aluminium, a number of the metals that have lower levels, 927 00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:44,370 but this thing it seems to have parked itself in orbit. If we go 928 00:54:44,370 --> 00:54:46,710 on the NASA data again, you know, I didn't come up with 929 00:54:46,740 --> 00:54:48,990 nothing I'm saying I've come up with other than the 930 00:54:48,990 --> 00:54:53,280 interpretation. So it seems to apply itself in orbit broke and 931 00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:55,470 for some reason broke apart. We don't know how long it would 932 00:54:55,470 --> 00:54:57,480 have been in orbit. So you could be dealing with something that 933 00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:00,450 was there for millions of years, had a catastrophic failure. idea 934 00:55:00,570 --> 00:55:03,480 or you know, was impacted by something? Who knows, right? Or 935 00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:05,880 maybe it was programmed to self destruct. At some point, you can 936 00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:07,830 go into those hypotheticals why that would happen. Because if 937 00:55:07,830 --> 00:55:11,970 it's artificial, then that gives you more room for thinking than 938 00:55:11,970 --> 00:55:14,790 if it was just a big comet, or something that was caught 939 00:55:14,790 --> 00:55:17,700 somehow. Because why would that explode? I don't know, I can't 940 00:55:17,700 --> 00:55:20,370 think of any reason why a natural object would be orbiting 941 00:55:20,370 --> 00:55:23,370 and then suddenly melt. Right, because that'd be super weird. 942 00:55:23,820 --> 00:55:28,050 So we have this object that then breaks up, the debris rains down 943 00:55:28,050 --> 00:55:31,110 across this vast field, because it's in orbit, you don't need 944 00:55:31,110 --> 00:55:34,260 this exotic solution of something impacting and sending 945 00:55:34,260 --> 00:55:37,230 a trillion tons of debris into space. And somehow coming in at 946 00:55:37,230 --> 00:55:40,050 these angles. It's much more parsimonious to say it's in 947 00:55:40,050 --> 00:55:43,890 space, it's already glassy, it's broken up, the debris gets 948 00:55:43,890 --> 00:55:46,860 secondary melting from, you know, this impact, but the 949 00:55:46,860 --> 00:55:50,220 initial event, the explosion, has melted it to glass, to this 950 00:55:50,220 --> 00:55:53,070 mixed glass. And then the secondary melting is as the 951 00:55:53,070 --> 00:55:57,720 debris comes in. It's just it matches what we see, even if it 952 00:55:57,720 --> 00:56:01,110 is not, let's say it's not right, because, you know, 953 00:56:01,170 --> 00:56:04,440 science rarely reaches a point where you can say is something's 954 00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:08,940 proven. That's like, a higher standard than I think almost any 955 00:56:08,970 --> 00:56:12,660 scientist aims for, you know, because it's rare that you can 956 00:56:12,660 --> 00:56:15,120 actually get the point you say, there's no possibility you're 957 00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:19,560 wrong. Right? So you could say, Well, I'm sure there's going to 958 00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:21,900 be something else, Bruce. Well, yes. I mean, maybe there are, as 959 00:56:21,900 --> 00:56:24,210 we said earlier, maybe there are natural objects like that. Or 960 00:56:24,210 --> 00:56:26,820 maybe there is something about an impact that was so strange, 961 00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:30,420 that we just haven't understood the physics of it yet. Right? So 962 00:56:30,420 --> 00:56:34,410 you have to be open to those possibilities. But if we don't 963 00:56:34,410 --> 00:56:38,190 look at these anomalies, how will we ever find these kinds of 964 00:56:38,190 --> 00:56:40,410 things wrong? That's the big question. If we always go for 965 00:56:40,410 --> 00:56:44,070 the oh, well, you know, it was probably natural probably is 966 00:56:44,070 --> 00:56:46,920 something that impacts we don't understand. Or in 50 years or 967 00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:49,440 100 years, somebody will clear this up. It's definitely not 968 00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:52,920 aliens move on. And I think that would be a tragedy if we do that 969 00:56:52,950 --> 00:56:53,520 every time. 970 00:56:54,570 --> 00:56:56,550 John Greenewald: The thing that sticks out to me and like I 971 00:56:56,550 --> 00:56:59,550 said, in the in the beginning of the show, I'm very new to this, 972 00:56:59,550 --> 00:57:02,670 but always fascinated, you know, to learn other people's research 973 00:57:02,670 --> 00:57:06,420 and the science behind it as much as I can understand. But 974 00:57:06,420 --> 00:57:09,900 the thing that sticks out to me is that kind of evidence of the 975 00:57:09,900 --> 00:57:14,940 to burn where you have signs of a manufactured type glass object 976 00:57:14,940 --> 00:57:18,510 that is just kind of defying what we know about the universe 977 00:57:18,510 --> 00:57:23,550 and our solar system, then you have that secondary burn. I'm 978 00:57:23,550 --> 00:57:26,670 not saying that that's indicative of alien just on 979 00:57:26,670 --> 00:57:30,900 that, but But my question to you based on that, is why isn't 980 00:57:30,900 --> 00:57:34,800 there more entertainment, to these types of ideas, because 981 00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:37,950 when you were going over those, what you were calling, you know, 982 00:57:37,980 --> 00:57:41,730 exotic explanations of, you know, just just so many 983 00:57:41,730 --> 00:57:44,700 different variables that have to go into play to make the size of 984 00:57:44,700 --> 00:57:47,970 the debris field and the angles that they have to go into and, 985 00:57:48,150 --> 00:57:51,750 and so many other factors that just didn't seem plausible. You 986 00:57:51,750 --> 00:57:55,710 want to talk about outcomes razor as silly as it as some 987 00:57:55,710 --> 00:58:00,780 people may think that it sounds a manufactured extraterrestrial 988 00:58:00,810 --> 00:58:06,300 object may actually be the more simpler answer. So with that 989 00:58:06,300 --> 00:58:12,060 said, Why isn't there more entertainment to that idea? And 990 00:58:12,090 --> 00:58:14,550 and correct me if I'm wrong, but it just seems like there's 991 00:58:14,730 --> 00:58:18,870 pushback on that, that they want to find a earth based, exotic 992 00:58:18,870 --> 00:58:23,670 explanation, rather than now broadening the theory base, 993 00:58:24,060 --> 00:58:27,780 based on the new information we have about interstellar objects, 994 00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:32,220 and kind of this unchartered territory, that sciences is 995 00:58:32,220 --> 00:58:33,690 really just kind of getting into. 996 00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:36,540 Bruce Fenton: Yeah, I think it's because that last few that I 997 00:58:36,540 --> 00:58:40,350 think it's because science is just getting into this, that we 998 00:58:40,350 --> 00:58:44,430 may well see some scientists start to pivot and question 999 00:58:44,430 --> 00:58:48,810 this. I mean, to be honest, I, until about five years ago, I 1000 00:58:48,870 --> 00:58:52,050 I'd never heard of tektites. To be honest, I don't know if you'd 1001 00:58:52,050 --> 00:58:56,460 heard of Tektite I thought that I was fairly well versed in 1002 00:58:56,490 --> 00:58:59,610 mysterious phenomena and ancient mysteries. As I say, that's been 1003 00:58:59,610 --> 00:59:03,210 a passion for me for like 30 years, I was really sort of 1004 00:59:03,540 --> 00:59:07,950 surprised to learn about an entire new mystery when I first 1005 00:59:07,950 --> 00:59:11,010 encountered them. So I think one thing is that I don't know how 1006 00:59:11,010 --> 00:59:13,380 well known they are in the fields in the various fields 1007 00:59:13,380 --> 00:59:16,710 that interact with them. Maybe it's not a popular field, 1008 00:59:16,710 --> 00:59:19,440 although there to be honest, there's been hundreds of papers 1009 00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:21,420 written on topics, so there's definitely some people involved. 1010 00:59:22,470 --> 00:59:25,380 But I suppose it hasn't had the level of awareness that you 1011 00:59:25,380 --> 00:59:28,680 should have for mystery of that size. Definitely. Because, like, 1012 00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:31,950 why are we not seeing a National Geographic special on this 1013 00:59:31,950 --> 00:59:35,730 stuff, you know, like an event of that scale, debris raining 1014 00:59:35,730 --> 00:59:39,390 down across 12,000 kilometers. It just to me, it strikes me as 1015 00:59:39,390 --> 00:59:42,480 amazing that I had to find out through some a side angle, 1016 00:59:42,930 --> 00:59:46,230 obscure research I was doing of something else, that I ended up 1017 00:59:46,230 --> 00:59:49,440 stumbling on this thing about tektites and then are about 1018 00:59:49,470 --> 00:59:52,590 these postulates that I'm amazed that this isn't a bigger story. 1019 00:59:52,590 --> 00:59:55,860 So I think perhaps isn't enough people on the problem for start, 1020 00:59:55,890 --> 01:00:00,000 so not enough independent fingers, not enough new blood go 1021 01:00:00,000 --> 01:00:02,670 into that mystery, I think that's an issue. Because if you 1022 01:00:02,670 --> 01:00:06,690 have people who have spent, say, 20 years believing a certain 1023 01:00:06,690 --> 01:00:10,260 narrative, those aren't the best people to come up with a new 1024 01:00:10,260 --> 01:00:14,400 idea when the science changes, because you have a couple of 1025 01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:16,590 things human interest, you know, like invested in your 1026 01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:20,460 credentials, your name, what you've achieved. For some people 1027 01:00:20,460 --> 01:00:24,060 that can be a fret, you know, I'm not, I don't say that all. 1028 01:00:24,090 --> 01:00:26,010 Some scientists love change, they love you know, things 1029 01:00:26,010 --> 01:00:28,860 update, some people, you know, they see that they've invested a 1030 01:00:28,860 --> 01:00:31,860 lot in a term story. You also have, I think you have some of 1031 01:00:31,860 --> 01:00:35,850 the phenomena that is similar to what happened with meteorites, 1032 01:00:35,940 --> 01:00:39,330 that if you go back a couple 100 years, you know, meteorites only 1033 01:00:39,330 --> 01:00:43,560 became accepted, because there was a shower that would involve 1034 01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:47,340 so many witnesses and so many stones coming down, that they 1035 01:00:47,340 --> 01:00:50,130 accepted that meteorites were real. That was, you know, before 1036 01:00:50,130 --> 01:00:54,840 couple 100 years ago, meteorites was seen as a woowoo. Fantasy, 1037 01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:57,420 you know, of course, rocks aren't falling from the sky, you 1038 01:00:57,420 --> 01:01:00,210 know, you're stupid in the seals. So you got to think about 1039 01:01:00,210 --> 01:01:02,700 that. And then, of course, that didn't mean there was no 1040 01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:06,810 meteorites before, 200 years ago. Right. So we had asteroids, 1041 01:01:06,810 --> 01:01:09,000 comets, everything going past, and the astronomers and 1042 01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:13,590 scientists of the day had just dismissed it. Right. So if that 1043 01:01:13,590 --> 01:01:17,730 was seen as too wild to go there, I mean, this is really 1044 01:01:17,940 --> 01:01:20,010 quite wild, when we start dealing with aliens, there's a 1045 01:01:20,010 --> 01:01:22,980 lot of scientists who are going to be stuck in that paradigm, 1046 01:01:22,980 --> 01:01:26,040 which is, I'm sure you've seen the phrase, it's never aliens, 1047 01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:28,950 right? And there's lots scientists in it, you know, in 1048 01:01:28,950 --> 01:01:33,210 their bio, it's never aliens. So if you have that mindset, and 1049 01:01:33,210 --> 01:01:35,790 that's the paradigm that you've done most of your work in your 1050 01:01:35,790 --> 01:01:39,000 career in. I don't think that Stein has good position for 1051 01:01:39,000 --> 01:01:42,570 flexibility to change. So we're going to have a very small 1052 01:01:42,570 --> 01:01:45,540 number of initial thinkers, people like Abby Lowe, for 1053 01:01:45,540 --> 01:01:49,410 example. Others I was just like Paul Davies, who's a 1054 01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:54,720 waiter over mathematician, physicist, and it's, he thinks a 1055 01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:56,550 lot on this kind of question, what would what could be looked 1056 01:01:56,550 --> 01:01:59,730 for in terms of aliens? There's a couple of others that you 1057 01:01:59,730 --> 01:02:02,640 know, I think are quite forward thinking, but not many, you 1058 01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:04,950 know, if you if you look, you oughta find the same, the same 1059 01:02:04,950 --> 01:02:07,260 names again, and again, on articles that are forward 1060 01:02:07,260 --> 01:02:10,380 thinking on kind of techno signatures and the search for 1061 01:02:10,380 --> 01:02:14,190 aliens, maybe a dozen scientists, you know, the, in 1062 01:02:14,190 --> 01:02:17,430 those fields, who are putting out ideas about you know, how we 1063 01:02:17,430 --> 01:02:19,590 can find them and expecting that we should find their 1064 01:02:19,590 --> 01:02:24,030 technologies. So I don't think a lot of people so again, so once 1065 01:02:24,030 --> 01:02:27,030 you restrict down and and people that are open to something, and 1066 01:02:27,030 --> 01:02:29,250 the number of people that know about that phenomena, so now 1067 01:02:29,250 --> 01:02:31,440 we're thinking how many of those people even know about the 1068 01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:34,230 Tektite issue, right, so we started get to a very small 1069 01:02:34,230 --> 01:02:37,350 number of fingers. And then plus the paradigm issue that we're 1070 01:02:37,350 --> 01:02:40,260 only just now entering a time when we're accepting 1071 01:02:40,260 --> 01:02:44,520 interstellar objects exist, also accepting that probably aliens 1072 01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:49,050 will send probes that we should look for kind of signatures of 1073 01:02:49,050 --> 01:02:51,990 technology or techno signatures, signatures of alien technology, 1074 01:02:52,110 --> 01:02:55,740 rather than expecting, you know, I don't an alien, coming up to 1075 01:02:55,740 --> 01:02:58,260 the White House, you know, introducing themselves. That's, 1076 01:02:58,290 --> 01:03:01,200 that's super unlikely that we're much more lighter text and like 1077 01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:03,570 a mega structure, you know, which would be you know, could 1078 01:03:03,570 --> 01:03:06,840 be an energy harvesting machines rounding sun, or something like 1079 01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:10,350 stroke earlier, like, sphere, floating mega brain, or one of 1080 01:03:10,350 --> 01:03:13,080 these things, these are much more likely to be detected than 1081 01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:15,390 to have an alien just turn up here and say, welcome to the 1082 01:03:15,390 --> 01:03:18,510 Galactic Federation, I think that's really almost no chance 1083 01:03:18,540 --> 01:03:22,290 that that's just my take. I think that, you know, again, the 1084 01:03:22,290 --> 01:03:25,050 other things, we're looking at course, radio signals. And as 1085 01:03:25,050 --> 01:03:27,720 Paul Davies, again, you know, he's suggested, we might be 1086 01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:30,360 looking at looking genetics that we might want to look for a 1087 01:03:30,360 --> 01:03:34,350 signature of modification of DNA in prehistory, which is he says 1088 01:03:34,350 --> 01:03:36,900 one of his favorites, and that's definitely my favorite, but 1089 01:03:36,900 --> 01:03:38,730 there's only a few people that are going to go there. So I 1090 01:03:38,730 --> 01:03:42,210 think we've got a combination of being right on the cusp of a 1091 01:03:42,210 --> 01:03:47,130 paradigm change, combined with not enough fingers in that 1092 01:03:47,130 --> 01:03:50,460 field. And that I think that's going to slowly that those are 1093 01:03:50,460 --> 01:03:53,340 going to combine as we have more and more scientists at NASA 1094 01:03:53,340 --> 01:03:55,800 saying, let's look for these techno signatures, you know, 1095 01:03:55,800 --> 01:03:59,040 we're getting funding now. They're going back into SETI, 1096 01:03:59,190 --> 01:04:02,070 they've been out of it for a long time, right. So we're going 1097 01:04:02,070 --> 01:04:04,950 to get some of the best minds start looking again, through the 1098 01:04:04,950 --> 01:04:09,180 data and seeing what is there. And I suspect, some of them are 1099 01:04:09,180 --> 01:04:12,450 going to look and see in their own papers, from the 60s that 1100 01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:17,400 there was no great thinkers of that time saying this stuff 1101 01:04:17,400 --> 01:04:20,280 seems to come from an object breaking up in space that's made 1102 01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:23,160 of weird glass. You know, we don't know, we know what this 1103 01:04:23,160 --> 01:04:27,450 is. And I would hope that that would get some of these 1104 01:04:27,450 --> 01:04:31,500 scientists rethinking the limited hypotheses that were put 1105 01:04:31,500 --> 01:04:35,100 forward, that I think were just centered on that time when 1106 01:04:35,100 --> 01:04:37,770 nobody believed that these kinds of audits are out there, and 1107 01:04:37,800 --> 01:04:40,230 nobody would want mega structures in the 60s, as far as 1108 01:04:40,230 --> 01:04:43,020 I know, you know, this is fairly recent stuff, the idea that 1109 01:04:43,020 --> 01:04:47,160 there's Dyson spheres and, you know, so floating alien brains, 1110 01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:50,370 I mean, most of this stuff is really kind of cutting edge. So 1111 01:04:50,790 --> 01:04:54,270 I think it's a combination of factors. But don't be surprised 1112 01:04:54,270 --> 01:04:57,930 if you know within a few years, you're seeing, you know, 1113 01:04:57,930 --> 01:05:01,740 hypotheses like this being offered by Conventional voices 1114 01:05:01,740 --> 01:05:03,990 and myself, you know, people with the PhDs and stuff. 1115 01:05:04,859 --> 01:05:07,259 John Greenewald: I did a show for History Channel A few years 1116 01:05:07,259 --> 01:05:11,519 back. And we talked about alien mega structures. And in CGI, I 1117 01:05:11,519 --> 01:05:15,479 got to create a Dyson Sphere harnessing the power of the sun 1118 01:05:15,479 --> 01:05:18,539 and stuff like that. And it's, it's, it's just a fascinating 1119 01:05:18,539 --> 01:05:21,449 angle. I mean, you and I could probably do a whole show just on 1120 01:05:21,449 --> 01:05:26,309 the hypothetical part, you know, merging with the machines and AI 1121 01:05:26,309 --> 01:05:29,309 and, and thinking extraterrestrial intelligence, 1122 01:05:29,309 --> 01:05:32,699 one of my favorite, favorite aspects of this whole 1123 01:05:32,699 --> 01:05:36,569 conversation that, you know, is just fun to think about. But 1124 01:05:37,079 --> 01:05:42,359 that said, with your way of thinking, because I know you 1125 01:05:42,359 --> 01:05:45,779 were talking about thinkers, and when you get into this level, 1126 01:05:45,779 --> 01:05:48,449 you're talking about a very small number that would, that 1127 01:05:48,449 --> 01:05:52,949 would entertain these types of possibilities. But the way that 1128 01:05:52,949 --> 01:05:56,489 Bruce Fenton thinks right now and the years of research that 1129 01:05:56,489 --> 01:05:59,279 you've done into this, and the debris field that you've 1130 01:05:59,279 --> 01:06:02,099 analyzed, and the the piece that you're looking at, and all the 1131 01:06:02,099 --> 01:06:05,729 science and calculations and everything. Are you convinced 1132 01:06:06,179 --> 01:06:09,929 that this is connected to alien intelligence or alien 1133 01:06:09,929 --> 01:06:14,459 technology? Or do you feel that you've just seen enough to say 1134 01:06:14,459 --> 01:06:15,509 that's a possibility? 1135 01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:19,650 Bruce Fenton: On a personal level, I would say first, I'm 1136 01:06:19,950 --> 01:06:24,510 99% Convinced that we're dealing with an interstellar object, and 1137 01:06:24,510 --> 01:06:28,710 that I'm probably 90% convinced it's an alien technology. So I 1138 01:06:28,710 --> 01:06:30,900 mean, I got that little niggling doubt. And I think that part of 1139 01:06:30,900 --> 01:06:34,560 that is because it's just so extraordinary and precious and 1140 01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:38,280 profound, that if it's true, that the impact of that there's 1141 01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:40,770 a bit of me that thinks, you know, can that really be true? 1142 01:06:40,770 --> 01:06:44,070 You know, am I crazy to even think that can be true? So it's 1143 01:06:44,070 --> 01:06:46,650 not necessarily that the I don't think that the evidence is that 1144 01:06:46,650 --> 01:06:50,670 problematic? I just think it's such a wild thing to go from the 1145 01:06:50,670 --> 01:06:53,100 theoretical, you know, that probably aliens are out there. 1146 01:06:53,280 --> 01:06:56,370 Maybe aliens are doing this, maybe. And it's doing that to 1147 01:06:56,400 --> 01:06:59,190 Oh, actually, perhaps we've got debris from an alien mega 1148 01:06:59,190 --> 01:07:02,670 structure, and I've got pieces of it in my bedroom. Right? It 1149 01:07:02,670 --> 01:07:05,130 just feels so extraordinary that I think that the doubt level 1150 01:07:05,130 --> 01:07:07,920 goes up, that you know, there must be something I'm not seeing 1151 01:07:07,920 --> 01:07:11,700 there. That makes it just a normal, you know, a natural 1152 01:07:11,700 --> 01:07:15,450 interstellar object. I am yeah, as I say, I am 99% convinced 1153 01:07:15,450 --> 01:07:18,870 this is an interstellar object, though. And that in itself would 1154 01:07:18,870 --> 01:07:23,580 change the paradigm because, you know, currently, is not accepted 1155 01:07:23,580 --> 01:07:27,060 that any material from an interstellar object exists on 1156 01:07:27,060 --> 01:07:30,360 earth. So if we confirm that that's what this is, then it 1157 01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:35,040 makes it first of all, it makes it the first known incident of 1158 01:07:35,070 --> 01:07:38,460 an interstellar object accepted if it's accepted. So 780,000 1159 01:07:38,460 --> 01:07:42,030 years, obviously, is a lot earlier than 2014. And then 1160 01:07:42,030 --> 01:07:44,730 secondly, it'll be the first where we have the debris in our 1161 01:07:44,730 --> 01:07:47,820 hands. And so we can actually go back and then revisit that 1162 01:07:47,820 --> 01:07:52,050 material and say, Well, what's interesting about it, other than 1163 01:07:52,050 --> 01:07:54,240 just being an anomalous, is there anything in here that 1164 01:07:54,270 --> 01:07:57,270 points to the kind of solar system it may have come from, if 1165 01:07:57,270 --> 01:08:00,900 this is directly material, from an object from another solar 1166 01:08:00,900 --> 01:08:05,520 system, not melt glass, it's the little pieces of it. Now we 1167 01:08:05,520 --> 01:08:08,820 revisit that and say, well, these isotropic anomalies, so 1168 01:08:08,820 --> 01:08:12,000 these are not created by isotropic, fractionalization, 1169 01:08:12,000 --> 01:08:15,750 during an impact, that these are the genuine differences between 1170 01:08:16,620 --> 01:08:19,620 Earth makeup, and some of the solar system, those would be 1171 01:08:19,620 --> 01:08:22,080 really interesting things to look at. So don't get me wrong. 1172 01:08:22,260 --> 01:08:26,310 I think that's gonna be amazing for the science and cosmology 1173 01:08:26,310 --> 01:08:30,120 and astronomy. But yeah, I just that 90% I mean, nice. They 1174 01:08:30,120 --> 01:08:32,580 still high, let's be honest. I mean, that's for it being an 1175 01:08:32,580 --> 01:08:35,430 alien mega structure. Yeah, I'm mostly there. I have those 1176 01:08:35,430 --> 01:08:37,230 moments, every now and then I think about is there something I 1177 01:08:37,230 --> 01:08:40,200 missed is, you know, am I wrong somewhere. But, you know, 1178 01:08:40,200 --> 01:08:44,730 without, without the feedback, critical feedback of a wider 1179 01:08:44,730 --> 01:08:50,040 community of experts, it's really hard to, to get to more 1180 01:08:50,040 --> 01:08:53,580 certainty or more doubt, I've had a couple of different sizes, 1181 01:08:53,580 --> 01:08:56,640 you know, a geologist, and, you know, a former planetary 1182 01:08:56,640 --> 01:08:59,940 geologist, who have both kind of looked at my paper, and they, 1183 01:09:00,000 --> 01:09:03,480 they find it compelling and convincing. They give me some 1184 01:09:03,480 --> 01:09:06,150 feedback on where, you know, things where I've put arguments 1185 01:09:06,150 --> 01:09:08,250 poorly, or whatever, you know, it's my first ever scientific 1186 01:09:08,250 --> 01:09:11,730 paper. So, you know, of course, there's gonna be areas in 1187 01:09:11,730 --> 01:09:14,760 construction, not necessarily in thinking but certainly in 1188 01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:19,260 construction. But they've been so that's been really heartening 1189 01:09:19,260 --> 01:09:21,360 that, you know, people that are familiar writing papers, and on 1190 01:09:21,360 --> 01:09:24,570 these kind of topics, have said that, well, yeah, it does 1191 01:09:24,780 --> 01:09:27,030 support what you're saying the paper you've produced, support 1192 01:09:27,030 --> 01:09:30,180 what you're saying. Now, I just add here, I wrote the paper 1193 01:09:30,180 --> 01:09:33,090 because, you know, people would say to me on social media, so 1194 01:09:33,090 --> 01:09:34,950 Well, you know, if you're so sure of yourself, you think it's 1195 01:09:34,950 --> 01:09:37,530 real, why haven't you got a paper, you know, you've probably 1196 01:09:37,530 --> 01:09:40,020 seen fuel savings in arguments, you know, that is already kind 1197 01:09:40,020 --> 01:09:42,690 of real if you've got a peer reviewed paper, and otherwise, 1198 01:09:42,870 --> 01:09:46,500 you know, you're full of it. So it wasn't, so I really wanted to 1199 01:09:46,500 --> 01:09:50,220 do something, I fell in the end. It was not important if it was 1200 01:09:50,220 --> 01:09:55,140 real, that I had to support it in a way that scientists could 1201 01:09:55,320 --> 01:09:59,070 pick up that ball and carry it forward. Because there's only a 1202 01:09:59,070 --> 01:10:03,480 limit to what I can do. With zero funding, no lab, no team, 1203 01:10:03,690 --> 01:10:07,260 you know, no great media platform, you know, if it's 1204 01:10:07,260 --> 01:10:10,740 real, all I can do is raise the ball high enough that someone 1205 01:10:10,740 --> 01:10:14,160 else sees it and picks it up. Right? He's got so is that? 1206 01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:17,460 John Greenewald: Is that paper available to the public? 1207 01:10:17,999 --> 01:10:20,399 Bruce Fenton: It is. Yeah, that's on ResearchGate. And on 1208 01:10:20,399 --> 01:10:24,419 academia.com, you know, networks for scientists, you can upload 1209 01:10:24,419 --> 01:10:24,989 your pages. And 1210 01:10:24,989 --> 01:10:28,349 John Greenewald: so you're welcoming feedback from whomever 1211 01:10:28,349 --> 01:10:31,319 is watching you right now you want them to look at that, 1212 01:10:31,439 --> 01:10:35,159 elevate it to the next level. And one of my last questions to 1213 01:10:35,159 --> 01:10:39,389 you is, and by the way, anybody who's listening or watching, I 1214 01:10:39,389 --> 01:10:42,719 will link all of this in the show notes. That way you can see 1215 01:10:42,719 --> 01:10:48,119 Bruce's paper. And if you either are a, someone who can peer 1216 01:10:48,119 --> 01:10:50,909 review it or know somebody who can or get it the right hands, 1217 01:10:50,909 --> 01:10:54,179 by all means take a look at it. So I'll make sure that that link 1218 01:10:54,179 --> 01:10:58,109 is there. But we've mentioned Avi Loeb, Dr. Avi Loeb, Harvard, 1219 01:10:58,139 --> 01:11:02,279 part of the founder of the Galileo Project. And he's going 1220 01:11:02,279 --> 01:11:05,909 out and getting that object in the Papua New New Guinea field 1221 01:11:05,909 --> 01:11:08,429 underwater. And I've heard a little bit about that very 1222 01:11:08,429 --> 01:11:15,479 brief. But we touched on that before. Is he either looking at 1223 01:11:15,479 --> 01:11:19,829 the same debris field looked at your paper? Is there any kind of 1224 01:11:19,829 --> 01:11:22,859 connection there? I mean, the sounds like this is what he's 1225 01:11:22,859 --> 01:11:28,139 doing in just a different field, meaning debris field, is this 1226 01:11:28,139 --> 01:11:30,269 something that he can look at, or has looked at, 1227 01:11:31,350 --> 01:11:33,210 Bruce Fenton: it shut me off would very much like him to look 1228 01:11:33,210 --> 01:11:36,030 at, I did shoot a couple of emails to the gallery approach. 1229 01:11:36,030 --> 01:11:38,610 And I used their, their box on their website, I think two or 1230 01:11:38,610 --> 01:11:40,830 three times, I've never had a reply. And that's just an 1231 01:11:40,830 --> 01:11:43,890 initial, you know, want to communicate about some work that 1232 01:11:43,890 --> 01:11:46,350 I'm doing. So I've been disappointed, because you would 1233 01:11:46,350 --> 01:11:50,160 think that that'd be a quite well monitored entry point to 1234 01:11:50,160 --> 01:11:52,890 the Galileo Project. So I didn't hear anything from that. And I 1235 01:11:52,890 --> 01:11:55,980 didn't hear anything from a direct email to to have either. 1236 01:11:56,370 --> 01:11:59,910 Again, I understand this, they're busy people. So I sort 1237 01:11:59,910 --> 01:12:01,860 of wrote it off as that. But I mean, I have sent it to other 1238 01:12:01,860 --> 01:12:06,120 people that know him. So and, in fact, people on the team, and 1239 01:12:06,150 --> 01:12:09,120 I've not heard anything back. So I don't know what to make of 1240 01:12:09,120 --> 01:12:11,580 that in a way. Because I think that they would even if it was 1241 01:12:11,580 --> 01:12:15,720 just to say, we don't buy it. You know, I'd be quite happy 1242 01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:17,730 with just that kind of response. If someone just came back and 1243 01:12:17,730 --> 01:12:21,480 said, you know, what, Bruce? I think this part of it just 1244 01:12:21,480 --> 01:12:23,820 doesn't make sense. Or, you know, good luck with it. That 1245 01:12:23,820 --> 01:12:26,220 kind of thing. So I don't really understand I don't know, if he's 1246 01:12:26,220 --> 01:12:29,880 that nobody's read those emails, or those contacts? Or what 1247 01:12:29,880 --> 01:12:32,490 that's about because like, if he's not, the strange thing is 1248 01:12:32,490 --> 01:12:36,090 that there's not many people doing this kind of stuff. Yeah, 1249 01:12:36,120 --> 01:12:38,640 right. So it's not like there's floods of people are gonna say, 1250 01:12:38,640 --> 01:12:41,640 you know, I've got a paper on techno signatures or 1251 01:12:41,880 --> 01:12:45,330 interstellar objects. There's a few, but there's not loads, 1252 01:12:45,330 --> 01:12:49,080 because again, these are fairly new topics. So I'm not quite 1253 01:12:49,080 --> 01:12:51,900 sure I would have thought that you'd know something. What I do 1254 01:12:51,900 --> 01:12:55,140 understand, though, is that in an interview that is out 1255 01:12:55,140 --> 01:13:00,210 tomorrow, someone has asked him about the paper. But I don't 1256 01:13:00,210 --> 01:13:02,640 know, of course, I don't know yet what his response was, 1257 01:13:02,640 --> 01:13:05,790 whether it was he'd never heard of it, or whether, you know, 1258 01:13:05,970 --> 01:13:08,400 he's looking at it. So that's gonna be really interesting to 1259 01:13:08,400 --> 01:13:11,010 be honest, on as to, you know, what actually is said in that 1260 01:13:11,010 --> 01:13:14,790 because at the very least from tomorrow, he assumed now he is 1261 01:13:14,790 --> 01:13:18,480 aware of it. So that interview has happened. So whether he was 1262 01:13:18,480 --> 01:13:22,830 aware before or not, he now is so I think, what do you think 1263 01:13:22,830 --> 01:13:25,110 not unreasonable to expect him to comment somewhere about isn't 1264 01:13:25,110 --> 01:13:25,740 it? I think, 1265 01:13:26,130 --> 01:13:28,110 John Greenewald: yeah, and that's a little disappointing to 1266 01:13:28,110 --> 01:13:32,100 hear, just simply because it sounds like he's traversing into 1267 01:13:32,100 --> 01:13:35,100 the same vein of work that you've done for quite some time. 1268 01:13:35,400 --> 01:13:39,690 So even if he did feel you were wrong. And I'm not saying you 1269 01:13:39,690 --> 01:13:42,270 are, but he, you know, if you felt like you were misguided or 1270 01:13:42,270 --> 01:13:45,390 wrong about a scientific whatever, that he that he would 1271 01:13:45,420 --> 01:13:48,180 respond. So that's a little disappointing to hear. But who 1272 01:13:48,180 --> 01:13:50,280 knows what will happen with that interview, please, you know, 1273 01:13:50,280 --> 01:13:53,970 definitely keep me updated. And if that drops, by the time this 1274 01:13:53,970 --> 01:13:56,070 airs on my channel, I'll make sure that that's in the show 1275 01:13:56,070 --> 01:13:59,790 notes as well. Bruce, I can't thank you enough for all of the 1276 01:13:59,790 --> 01:14:04,170 time that you've given me. Here. In closing, if the audience 1277 01:14:04,170 --> 01:14:07,440 wants to reach out to you, how can they do that? How can they 1278 01:14:07,440 --> 01:14:08,490 get in contact with you? 1279 01:14:09,540 --> 01:14:11,310 Bruce Fenton: Sure. I mean, if anyone's got sort of, you know, 1280 01:14:11,640 --> 01:14:15,090 pertinent information, contacts, or, you know, questions, and 1281 01:14:15,090 --> 01:14:20,580 they certainly can reach me by email. So, Bruce, at Bruce 1282 01:14:20,610 --> 01:14:24,450 Fenton dot info, you know, open to things on there. So, you 1283 01:14:24,450 --> 01:14:27,600 know, why can't probably help with is, you know, all kinds of 1284 01:14:27,600 --> 01:14:30,210 stuff, theories about aliens and stuff on that, you know, 1285 01:14:30,210 --> 01:14:34,470 because, obviously, if there's anything to do with this topic, 1286 01:14:34,590 --> 01:14:37,470 I'd be quite happy to hear from anyone on that, or if they feel 1287 01:14:37,470 --> 01:14:39,660 that they know anyone that could, as you say, you know, 1288 01:14:40,290 --> 01:14:44,160 look at this and give opinions, you know, I'd appreciate that. I 1289 01:14:44,160 --> 01:14:47,280 do have, you know, a presence on Twitter, so some can get me on 1290 01:14:47,280 --> 01:14:51,090 social media. They can pm me on there as well. So that's 1291 01:14:51,630 --> 01:14:57,120 geological setting is my handle on there. I'm open to DM on 1292 01:14:57,120 --> 01:15:00,240 these topics as well. I think that's probably the best twice 1293 01:15:00,240 --> 01:15:03,060 to get a hold of me, I'd say the perfect papers on ResearchGate 1294 01:15:03,090 --> 01:15:05,550 that has a messaging system on there. So someone reads it and 1295 01:15:05,550 --> 01:15:09,480 wants to just instantly ask me something. And I do check on 1296 01:15:09,480 --> 01:15:12,690 that Research Gate page, so they can contact me through there. 1297 01:15:13,500 --> 01:15:15,480 John Greenewald: Awesome. And I'll make sure that the email 1298 01:15:15,510 --> 01:15:19,740 the website, Bruce Fenton dot info is all in the show notes. 1299 01:15:20,010 --> 01:15:23,430 And links also to the two books that you mentioned. I'll get 1300 01:15:23,430 --> 01:15:26,880 that Amazon Author Page link over there for anybody 1301 01:15:26,880 --> 01:15:30,240 interested in your other books. But honestly, Bruce, thank you 1302 01:15:30,240 --> 01:15:33,900 so much for your time. And I'm looking forward to seeing what 1303 01:15:33,900 --> 01:15:36,870 happens with it. I'll, I'll definitely be watching. And if 1304 01:15:36,870 --> 01:15:39,630 there's any developments, please feel free to give me a call and 1305 01:15:39,630 --> 01:15:41,490 drop me a line. I'd love to have you back. 1306 01:15:42,270 --> 01:15:44,340 Bruce Fenton: Appreciate it. That'd be that'd be awesome. And 1307 01:15:44,340 --> 01:15:45,990 you know, the one thing I really hoped for John, to be honest, 1308 01:15:45,990 --> 01:15:49,560 apart from what were they trying to recapture? Really, I would 1309 01:15:49,560 --> 01:15:52,110 love to see that NatGeo special where they show something 1310 01:15:52,110 --> 01:15:55,290 blowing debris flying for hunting, it just seems a missed 1311 01:15:55,290 --> 01:15:58,530 opportunity. You know, there's absolute amazing event, and most 1312 01:15:58,530 --> 01:16:00,810 people don't know about it. So they're at least I hope I'm 1313 01:16:00,810 --> 01:16:03,390 raising attention to extraordinary period in history. 1314 01:16:03,390 --> 01:16:05,430 So thanks very much for having me on. I really appreciate it. 1315 01:16:05,880 --> 01:16:08,550 John Greenewald: Absolutely. And if I can throw out what's what's 1316 01:16:08,550 --> 01:16:11,100 very cool about this conversation is even though you 1317 01:16:11,100 --> 01:16:16,080 know you, you were talking about the alien, potential connection 1318 01:16:16,080 --> 01:16:20,160 there, even if it was natural, how big of a discovery that 1319 01:16:20,160 --> 01:16:22,320 would be and that that's why I love that story in this 1320 01:16:22,320 --> 01:16:26,490 conversation is that even if it turns out to not be alien, the 1321 01:16:26,520 --> 01:16:30,780 natural explanation is pretty fascinating in and of itself. So 1322 01:16:30,990 --> 01:16:33,330 very, very cool. I really appreciate the conversation. 1323 01:16:33,330 --> 01:16:36,750 Bruce, thank you again. And thank you all for listening and 1324 01:16:36,750 --> 01:16:39,540 watching. It's always a big help. If you're watching on 1325 01:16:39,540 --> 01:16:41,820 YouTube, click the Thumbs Up button, make sure you're 1326 01:16:41,820 --> 01:16:44,460 subscribed to this channel. I have a lot of fun making these 1327 01:16:44,460 --> 01:16:47,130 interviews, especially with people like Bruce where I get to 1328 01:16:47,130 --> 01:16:51,330 explore topics I know nothing about. So I'm learning right 1329 01:16:51,330 --> 01:16:54,810 along with you. But that's what this channel is. You get to peek 1330 01:16:54,810 --> 01:16:57,360 into my journey of trying to find the truth behind all of 1331 01:16:57,360 --> 01:17:01,440 these mysteries and, and obviously take that journey with 1332 01:17:01,440 --> 01:17:04,230 me and make up your own mind. So thank you for doing that. Again, 1333 01:17:04,230 --> 01:17:07,560 make sure you hit the thumbs up, subscribe to the channel. If 1334 01:17:07,560 --> 01:17:10,800 you're listening on the podcast version. Please do the same. I 1335 01:17:10,800 --> 01:17:13,800 aim for five stars with these shows. If you don't know that 1336 01:17:13,800 --> 01:17:16,830 these interviews dropped to audio form. It's listed under 1337 01:17:16,830 --> 01:17:20,460 the black vault radio on any podcast aggregator that you 1338 01:17:20,460 --> 01:17:23,880 watch. With that said, this is John Greenewald Jr signing off, 1339 01:17:24,000 --> 01:17:25,050 and we'll see you next time.