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John Greenewald: Hey everybody,
John Greenewald here with the

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black vault Radio. Thank you so
much for tuning in and making

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this your podcast of choice.
This interview is a little bit

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different. This happened during
what I call a behind the scenes

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episode, one that if you have no
idea what I'm talking about, on

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the black vault originals
YouTube channel, what I do are

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these behind the scenes shows,
these are ones where you can log

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in and see kind of the behind
the scenes of makings of

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segments or interviews or all
sorts of things. Well, my guest

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today Alejandro Rojas joined me
and one of those behind the

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scenes and instead of resetting
the interview, when he popped

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on, we just immediately got into
a great conversation. So I just

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let it roll. It didn't reset. I
didn't try and make it a more

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structured introduction like I
usually do, because Alejandro

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has not only been on the show
before, but he's someone that I

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always have a lot of fun talking
with. And we always have a great

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time, so I didn't want to break
that momentum. So without

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further ado, stay tuned for the
black vault radio with Alejandro

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Rojas coming up.

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Alejandro Rojas, everybody, that
I was keeping this big secret on

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who my guest was. And I just
wanted to out of respect. If you

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said, John, sorry, man, I can't
do it. I didn't want anybody to

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go after you go. Hey, man, you
didn't show up? What's going on?

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Oh, you're not

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Alejandro Rojas: supposed to be
saying any of this. You're

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supposed to pretend like this is
a big reveal

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John Greenewald: this. And that.
Wait, I gotta get a countdown

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going. But for the for the big
reveal of who the mystery guest

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is. But I was alluding to it. I
don't know in the chat, because

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the chat has been pretty busy.
And we've got about 260 people

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watching through a couple
sociality there. Yeah, so

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there's all sorts of kinds of
fun stuff. But I don't know if

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they caught on. But the one
thing that I'll say before we

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get going to the more structured
interview, is that I've always

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enjoyed speaking with you,
because we don't always agree.

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But we actually can talk now,
we've had rifts in the past, but

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those are in the past. We don't
have talked about that. Yeah.

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But that's why I love talking to
you is because you learn from

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it, you know, you have

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Alejandro Rojas: exactly say
have the dialing, you know, once

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we talk, and I got to better
understand your point of view, I

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learned a lot. And I literally
went in read back pretty much

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all of our conversations. And
it's just, it's rough. And I

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really felt at the time, that's
what was going on, there was

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just some kind of like, almost
like we were having two

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different conversations. And in
a way we were, you know, we were

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just things that we weren't
points of view that we weren't

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understanding. And that's the
hard part with that text, I

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think. And then the other hard
part is that we both had our

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armies, you know, we both have
our followers who feel like they

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need to come in and to defend
us. So your guys are trashing

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me. My eyes are trashing you.
And then, you know, and I was

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representing kind of the whole
team Elizondo people were behind

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me, and you had that than that,
you know, the other side. And so

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that just heightens it when
they're in there like you No

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kidding. So volatile. And I
think I learned from that cool

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thing, too, is to not let the
emotion to those crowds. I

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already felt like I was kind of
impervious to it, but obviously

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I wasn't, I feel like that
really influenced both of us.

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That's the other hard part. And
I think that UFO Twitter has

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gotten so toxic, that the
majority of the people talking

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are trolls and everybody else
either is quietly watching, or

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not in there at all anymore.
They leave. I mean, we you see

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people almost daily like this,
it's just too much you guys are

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like, just at each other's
throats. I'm out of here.

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John Greenewald: Yeah, that's
what's also very, I would say

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frustrating. And instead of
doing structured, I'm just going

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to cut the interview like this.
So hopefully you don't mind.

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We'll just continue talking.
Yeah. All right. What's

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frustrating is seeing that fall
off of people that that and I

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don't want to name names, and we
don't have to, but that had such

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a great view came onto the
scene, you know, kind of knew

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which was great. We need that.
And then fast forward a year in

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some cases or two years and
they're like, I'm out. This is

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done. I'm I'm out of this. I
hate it. And it's so frustrating

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to see them just kind of kind of
We'll call rage quit, you know,

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for any gamers out there. But
rightfully so like I think that

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they just get attacked because
their views aren't the same or

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they feel used or they feel like
they're being lied to. And they

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just go away and I can't I don't
like the whole sign up. You know

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me, I don't like that whole SIOP
there disinformation to, to sow

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this doubt and and create these
issues. I'm not I'm not on that

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bandwagon. But in the same
respect, you can't help but

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think like, Okay, is there some
kind of part of this to disrupt

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that conversation? Because we're
losing good people? Like I'm in

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it for the long? Yeah. You know,
it'll be on etched in my

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tombstone that I'm, like, the
black vault till the day died?

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You know, like, I'm not going
anywhere. But I think we're

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losing good people. Do you feel
that is that? I won't say part

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of it. Now, I

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Alejandro Rojas: agree with you.
But I don't know about part of

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the master plan. And I did to
your point, and no, I know

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exactly. What you're saying is,
is? It seems? Well, here's a

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couple things. It's, first of
all, you and I have been around

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for a long time doing this. And
we've seen a lot of people come

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and go for various reasons,
often, because it's kind of the

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fighting, even before the
internet was that big of a deal,

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you know, because you're arguing
with our colleagues at

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conferences or via email, or
remember, what was the big UFO

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digest? Or the big UFO email
chain that used to go around

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before social media that we were
all on where people would fight?

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John Greenewald: And that was a
UFO digest, wasn't it?

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Alejandro Rojas: Yeah. So and
even there. I remember a guy who

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left because he got John
Alexander's wife got mad at him,

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and said she was going to curse
him and he got sick. I can't

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remember his name. I don't
remember if you remember this

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one. And he left you for ology,
because he was afraid of her.

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John Greenewald: I don't. I
don't that doesn't ring a bell.

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Alejandro Rojas: Yeah, so funny.
So I mean, there's been a lot of

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reasons and writing or this has
gone on through the years. And,

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you know, for me, also, I think
we're built a little

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differently. And that, you know,
a lot of celebrities and

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everything, also leave social
media because of mental health

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issues. And at first, I used to
not really understand it,

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because I'm like, you know,
every time I post an article, I

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get tons of hate. That's, that's
natural when you're online. And

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I think that just, you know, us
tackling controversial topics

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where we're expecting pushback,
until we've grown this really

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thick skin, where I almost a
little bit, and I know you're

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the same get a little bit
excited about it, it's like,

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Fine, bring it on. Because, you
know, we're a couple of reasons.

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One is, you know, it's like
trying to beat up my work,

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that's fine. One, there's a
little bit of ego, because it's

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like, you're not going to be
able to do it. Lots of you. But

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the other side is, I hope some
of you can do it, because I want

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my work to be better, too. And I
want to learn and see what I

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missed, you know, are there
perspectives that like, like you

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said, that I'm not getting that
I need to relate to? So I think

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we're just not as effective. So,
yeah, getting into the more

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recent people. And, you know, we
had a mutual friend, of course,

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who left recently. And I don't
understand that, I think that

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you got to be tough, and you got
to be focused, and you got to

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move forward no matter what. And
this is also to address that

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last part, sorry, of anybody
coming in and purposely

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manipulating in order to get rid
of people like that. If you're,

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if you're steadfast on what
you're doing, and focus on the

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work, that's not going to have
an effect on you have some of

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these people who come after me
been trying to get under my skin

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to get me to quit, maybe
probably, when it comes to, you

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know, any kind of sigh up, I
don't know. But whether it's a

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psyop or not, again, bring it
on, because you know, I've

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prepared myself and I've been
through the wringer. And you're

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gonna have a really hard time
pulling that kind of stuff on

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me, it's just not going to
affect me. So with our mutual

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friend, who, you know, you kind
of outlined a little bit of what

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happened to him. I just would
not, I kind of had the attitude

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of like, I don't get why that's
such a big deal because it would

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not affect me at all. And that
kind of thing has happened to me

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and I just don't have that same
kind of like fear. So people

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have said, What about death
threats or blah, blah, blah,

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that's the internet. You know,
whenever you got more than once

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you start getting followers and
especially once you put yourself

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out there, like we do putting
stuff out in the media and

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everything. You're just gonna
get it too act more and more. So

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the more popular the get you
get, you're also the more you're

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gonna get attacked. And that's
just kind of how it works. So

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just got to prepare yourself for
it. And it's one of the ugly

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realities of being a public
figure today.

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John Greenewald: You've
obviously covered this for a

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long time, you've worked as a
journalist a long time you

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you've written tons of articles,
you've run quite a quite a few

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different projects through the
years. Where do you think we are

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now? Like, what is your
perspective? So away from that,

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that social media drama? Yeah,
going above that? Where are we?

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Do you feel that we are just on
the cusp of something? Or do you

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feel that conversation may is
chant may have changed a little

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bit, but we're on the same path?

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Alejandro Rojas: I don't know. I
think that that. My perspective

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is that we, in a way are on the
cusp. But you know, I think UFO

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it's kind of a turtle inherent
type of thing, where UFO Twitter

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feels like we're on the cusp,
but there's a rabbit. They feel

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like, oh, you know, tomorrow,
we're gonna find out everything.

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I'm like the turtle where it's
like, we're on the cuts. But

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that means maybe in the next
decade, we'll have some or in

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the next five years, we'll have
some big revelations, that it's

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going to take much longer, but
that's better than before. You

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know, like five years ago, I
would have said it's going to

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take much longer, where that
sort of Revelation. So it's just

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a slow move. I think the
difference is, and I think this

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is what a lot of people don't
get a lot of people don't

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understand the difference. And I
think your audience is a lot

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different because you you train
them because you are looking for

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evidence.

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John Greenewald: I call it mind
control. Okay. Like I've told

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them exactly.

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Alejandro Rojas: And you're very
good at controlling your your

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Oh, P talk

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John Greenewald: about
conspiracy.

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Alejandro Rojas: Your, your cult
you've got you've developed a

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great quote where you're
leaving. No, I'm kidding. But

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but the point being that, you
know, they're looking for

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evidence, you're looking for
documents, and you're a stickler

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to that. And that's one of the
things that you and I argue

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about. I am more on that
science. And but either way, I

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think we'll both agree. What
we've had a lot prior to the

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last five years is a lot of
speculation going on. A lot of

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the research was speculation.
And then you have groups like

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the SEIU scientific Coalition
for UAP studies, which I'm a

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board member of. That's why I
love to welcome. But doing some

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science and coming out with some
papers like at first with you,

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or first was agua dia than doing
the Nimitz thing. But those take

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a long time, a couple years
each. So that kind of work,

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which is real, I think research
and putting some moving the

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needle just takes a very long
time. The good thing that we

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have now is more resources, more
people, there are a lot more

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scientists getting involved NASA
getting involved, money coming

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towards all of these efforts.
The good thing about I don't

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have a lot of hopes for us
necessarily hearing a lot from

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the Pentagon. I mean, they've
told you, and I quote this

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thing, what Susan Goff told you,
many times when she told you

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like a couple of years ago
regarding the UAP Task Force at

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that time, that they have no
intention of sharing anything

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that they find or cases that
they're looking into, that all

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that work is classified. And
they they haven't returned a

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tough spot. So I think the
information is going to come

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from Citizen Science from, you
know, more transparent science

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that's going to get done. That
may be disappointing to a lot of

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people, because that takes a lot
of time. But that's what it's

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going to take. Of course, you
and I have talked at length

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about the Wilson document, but
best case scenario, you know,

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let's say that the Wilson
documents reel all of that

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happen. You've got you know the
word of one Admiral and you

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still have to crack open that
egg, you still have to go in

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there somebody has to and say,
Hey, here's what he said true.

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And they can easily say no, he's
we've never had that

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conversation, just like he's
saying, which i i believe him

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actually but you know, and then
it's over. So everybody thinks

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that somehow that's some kind of
smoking gun. It's not at all

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it's nothing. It's practically
nothing. You still need the

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receipts. You always got to
bring the receipt. The Wilson

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document is not a receipt. It's
hearsay. It's speculation. The

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time for hearsay and speculation
is done. Get over the hearsay

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and speculation because that's
what we've been doing for

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decades. that's gotten us
nowhere. We need to serve you in

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the tough work.

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John Greenewald: Let me jump in
because I want to potentially

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revisit it depends on we have
always so much to talk about.

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But I want to stick with the
science for a second because you

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mentioned FCU. So I want you to
give a little bit of a

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background to SEIU. But it may
be a good time to ask this

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question. Christopher bales
Christopher, first of all, thank

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you for the support of the
channel. He has a great question

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which I think maybe I'd like for
you to address in this answer

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with SEIU, folks are leaving
because there's no data or

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physical evidence. Now, for
those who feel like Christopher

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does here. Can you tell us a
little bit about SEIU? If they

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don't know i? I've known Chris
for a while. So I think he knows

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but for audience members who
don't, but then do you agree

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with the fact that there's no
data or physical evidence,

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again, with your being a board
member of SEIU and the work that

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they're doing?

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Alejandro Rojas: Yeah, perfect
question. Christopher bale when

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I give this up, because, you
know, I get a big smile with

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that question. He is 100%.
Right. That's what we're looking

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for is data and physical
evidence. I wouldn't say there's

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no data or physical evidence
there. But there is a limited

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amount, that's for sure.
However, there's so much of this

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speculation. And, and, you know,
talk about hearsay and

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everything, that that's 99% of
what you'll find out there. So

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finding the data, and the
physical evidence is like a

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needle in the haystack, even if
you're just looking for articles

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or something like that. The
reason I'm smiling so big is

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because that's exactly what one
of the things that I'm working

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on with my new job at Enigma
labs, essentially, we're a

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software company. We are a tech
company, we're building an app

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and a website with all with
data. And when it comes to the

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physical evidence side, and
we'll get more into that, I'm

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sure. But when it comes to the
physical evidence side, we're

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also, you know, posting today,
hopefully, that's our goal,

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about, you know, more than 100
articles that I've had some

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freelance journalists write that
are mostly familiar with this

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topic, but either way, great
researchers who are writing

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unbiased, comprehensive, kind of
like a UAP, Wikipedia, but more

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comprehensive. And I think, more
on bias than anything out there.

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So because I really feel a lot
of those Wikipedia entries get

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taken over by the skeptics, and
debunkers. So I'm really excited

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about that, because you'll be
able to look through those

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articles and see what kind of
physical evidence there is out

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there. So for instance, you
know, Jay Paul, of France,

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they've got about five or six
cases where there's physical

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evidence, mostly, most of the
physical evidence, though, is

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electromagnetic effects on on
objects, so which is, you know,

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limited and what you can do with
that. The other physical

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evidence that exists, you know,
that people claim and at SVU, we

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have a paper on this, the Uber
tuba, metal, I personally feel

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that the analysis, what it came
down to that on the other side

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of the planet where that
alleged, you know, material was

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found, they weren't they had
developed that material, they

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were working with the same type
of aluminum. So if that aluminum

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existed on this planet, I don't
think that's very strong

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physical evidence, but at least
you know, an analysis on the

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alleged physical evidence that's
out there. And you could read

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that analysis and make up your
own mind. I think that Jacque

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valet and some of the former
Bigelow OS app guys are more

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excited about that Uber tubuh
materials and I am, but given

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our analysis, but there is a
little bit out there. But I

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agree with Christopher 1,000%,
that the focus on data and

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physical evidence is where it
needs to be. And when it comes

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to the data part, and this is
how you can understand what

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Galileo especially is doing is
that they feel similarly and

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they're like, now we need to
gather data. The data that has

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been gathered thus far has
little to no scientific value.

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So they are determining how do
we gather data that is more

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valuable scientifically. In the
documentary terror in the sky,

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we saw UAP X doing exactly that,
where they were collecting a ton

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of different devices to collect
a lot of different emissions

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from a potential UAP so that
when a UAP situation happens,

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they can record things like
frequencies, light, IR light,

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including you know, a wider
spectrum of light than a normal

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camera would have radiation, all
of these type of things cosmic,

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cosmic something or rather's
that I don't even understand

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that Kevin Knuth and Matthews
idea, guess where we're

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collecting? So that's what you
have to do is collect data. And

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that's the key. Unfortunately, I
don't think they really ran

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across any UAP incidents, but
they're still searching because

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when you gather a ton of data,
that means there's even more

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data to go through. But you
know, look, if they had caught a

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genuinely mysterious phenomena,
then they would have had tons of

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data there. Let's say, you know,
they caught a UAP or some crap

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like the tic tic tac blew by You
know, they might have then been

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able to get different radiation
readings and then had an idea

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of, you know what that
technology is? So I think he's

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right. I think there is a lack
of that. And I think he's right

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in that people looking for that
information. have a hard time

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doing that. But I think our
website and the Nico Labs is

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going to help that I think the
website at per se, you helps

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that. Otherwise, there's not a
lot of resources out there.

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You're, you know, the king when
it comes to FOIA documents. So

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this is where you go for
documents.

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And those are the few outlets
that are out there. There's not

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a lot when you're looking for
this kind of information. And I

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feel like like you probably do,
I feel, unfortunately, and I

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love the Bigelow and OS app team
and what they've done, but they

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haven't provided a lot of
science or, or data, either.

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They've got it, they've only
provided us with a lot of

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hearsay, and speculation as
well. So I think that I'm

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hopeful they'll come out with
some more data if they've got

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it. But that just hasn't been an
outlet for the scientific data

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that we're all looking for.

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John Greenewald: Now with SEIU,
I know that the papers are

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available, right? So on the
website, what's what's the

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website for FCU?

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Alejandro Rojas: Explore
fcu.org.

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John Greenewald: So you can
download the papers there, in a

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nutshell, because then I want to
ask you about that Bigelow data

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as well. But the analyses that
FCU has done thus far. From your

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vantage point, what do you feel
those conclusions and papers

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have brought forward? Are we
looking at solving these

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00:21:36,690 --> 00:21:40,380
mysteries like agua, DIA and so
on? Have they only helped

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support that there's something
completely mysterious about

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this, or somewhere in the
middle?

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Alejandro Rojas: I probably
somewhere in the middle? I don't

353
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think I think what they've done
especially if you look at the

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Aqua dia paper, and the Nimitz
paper is they showed that there

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was given and they use witness
testimony, which of course, is

356
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not scientific data. But it is
well, that's arguable, some

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people will argue that that it
is, but it's limited in use, you

358
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know, scientifically. But what
it does, and actually, in the

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frame, the way I'm framing it
that the anecdotal information

360
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tests hold a little more value
in that it analyzes potential

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characteristics. And that's
really important. So in other

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words, we're seeing these
objects, we don't know what they

363
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are, they are moving in ways
that we can't explain the

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scientific community that we
have looked at, both of those

365
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papers have largely agreed with
the findings. And so it shows

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things that seem to be physical
moving in ways that are, that

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would generate huge amounts of
energy, you can't move an object

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is quickly, even this mouse, if
this mouse was to move at, you

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know, half the speed of light,
all of a sudden, that takes a

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huge amount of energy to make
that mass do that. extraordinary

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amounts of energy. So those
sorts of but we're not seeing

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outputs of those sorts of
energy. So for example, a jet it

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creates, it's pushing, you know,
fuel backwards in order to move

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forward. And what is the result
of that? What is it emitting

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heat is a big one photons light.
So those are things we can

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measure. And if we measure
those, even if we didn't know,

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hey, there's a light in the sky,
what the hell is that? If we,

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you know, measure that, you
know, scientists can take the,

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the video and other telemetry
and determine, oh, that's he

380
00:23:45,120 --> 00:23:48,210
caused the light, that's a
rocket propulsion, to determine

381
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the type of propulsion that's
going on. So these observations

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do help in that, then we do have
this going on where some of the

383
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theoretical physicists can say,
you know, given what we're

384
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seeing, here's what could be
going on, you know, here's what

385
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what we know of science, this is
possible, that could explain

386
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,620
what's going on. And, you know,
so they speculate about things

387
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like the wormholes and how they
might work or things like that,

388
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or, you know, multiple
dimensions, you know, when

389
00:24:16,650 --> 00:24:19,950
theory is out that that they're
popping in between dimensions,

390
00:24:20,130 --> 00:24:24,240
if that so they could be
emitting a I think it's a

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00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,210
Hawkins particle, Hawkins
radiation, something like that.

392
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So if we measure for Hawkins
radiation, that would give us a

393
00:24:30,360 --> 00:24:35,100
clue if we were able to capture
that during a UAP event. So

394
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those are the sorts of struggles
that scientists are looking at.

395
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I was

396
00:24:39,750 --> 00:24:43,230
John Greenewald: really
intrigued the other day, Kurt,

397
00:24:43,290 --> 00:24:48,960
Jai Mangal had posted a message
which there was no indicator

398
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,930
like Avi allowed me to share
this email, but it was an email.

399
00:24:52,980 --> 00:24:58,380
Seemingly a private one between
Dr. Avi Loeb, and Kurt, and I'm

400
00:24:58,380 --> 00:24:59,970
sure it was fine for him to
share it because I haven't

401
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,580
Seeing any backlash in that
respect, but the revelation that

402
00:25:02,580 --> 00:25:06,510
came from it was that there was
coordination of some kind from

403
00:25:06,510 --> 00:25:10,770
the quote unquote director of
the new UFO office who I'm sure

404
00:25:10,770 --> 00:25:13,800
that's Shawn Kirkpatrick,
although he wasn't named, but

405
00:25:13,980 --> 00:25:19,740
regardless had visited Avi Loeb
for essentially writing a paper

406
00:25:19,740 --> 00:25:23,010
about the Ukraine UAP. And we
don't have to get into that

407
00:25:23,010 --> 00:25:26,130
part. But my question is about
that coordination. I was

408
00:25:26,130 --> 00:25:32,460
intrigued by aero the UFO office
now, reaching out to the private

409
00:25:32,460 --> 00:25:37,620
sector saying, Hey, Dr. Lowe,
can you look at this either for

410
00:25:37,620 --> 00:25:41,040
us or just look at it? So I'm
curious how much is official

411
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,190
there? But let's just say it's
official, if I may ask, Has

412
00:25:44,190 --> 00:25:48,510
there been reached out to SEIU
for the same reasons?

413
00:25:49,590 --> 00:25:56,100
Alejandro Rojas: Um, I guess I
would put it I would say there's

414
00:25:56,100 --> 00:25:59,880
been reached out, we were very
public about, you know, Space

415
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:04,980
Command or and Space Force being
at our event. Others also we had

416
00:26:04,980 --> 00:26:11,910
former UAPs and others at our
SEO event. So definitely, we're

417
00:26:11,910 --> 00:26:15,930
talking to those people as well.
But not to that degree. They're

418
00:26:15,930 --> 00:26:20,820
not at this point. Anecdotally,
I can say, I can't say, you

419
00:26:20,820 --> 00:26:26,850
know, well, I can somewhat semi
officially say that. Especially

420
00:26:26,850 --> 00:26:29,790
our Nimitz report has gone all
over the place. They've all

421
00:26:29,790 --> 00:26:35,130
looked at that. And because it's
the only public report, which is

422
00:26:35,130 --> 00:26:37,500
a little bit frustrated, because
if the Navy came to the

423
00:26:37,500 --> 00:26:41,760
conclusion that the tic tac and
in the Nimitz of that was a true

424
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,330
UAP, what did they use to
determine that to come to that

425
00:26:45,330 --> 00:26:48,750
conclusion? We don't know. So at
the SAU, we did our own paper.

426
00:26:49,020 --> 00:26:53,130
And actually, Kevin Knuth, the
physicists of out of SUNY

427
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:57,810
Albany, who has his own journal
and lab, did wrote a peer review

428
00:26:57,810 --> 00:27:02,700
paper based off of it with the
FCU. And that was in his

429
00:27:02,700 --> 00:27:06,180
journal. So and that's done the
Rams, and that's gotten people

430
00:27:06,180 --> 00:27:11,220
very excited. So in that sense,
you know, it's a private, it's a

431
00:27:11,460 --> 00:27:17,940
report in the public that is
being used, as, you know,

432
00:27:17,940 --> 00:27:21,090
research material for people
inside the government. I think

433
00:27:21,090 --> 00:27:24,990
that you know, people and I'm
familiar with what you're

434
00:27:24,990 --> 00:27:28,710
referring to, are kind of
shocked that they would go to

435
00:27:28,710 --> 00:27:33,150
Abbey low, but to me, it makes
perfect sense in that the stage

436
00:27:33,150 --> 00:27:36,150
that they're in, right now,
they're kind of in a fact

437
00:27:36,150 --> 00:27:40,620
finding stage. They're like,
Okay, what is this? You know,

438
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:45,810
landscape look like? Who are the
groups out there investigating

439
00:27:45,810 --> 00:27:48,690
and doing stuff? Are there
scientists? Who are those

440
00:27:48,690 --> 00:27:51,960
scientists? What are they doing?
Are those scientists nuts or

441
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:57,330
not? I think that, you know,
there there are people who are

442
00:27:57,330 --> 00:28:01,710
concerned with the some of the
weirdness that Bigelow has

443
00:28:01,710 --> 00:28:04,320
gotten involved with in that
group. So they're like, Okay,

444
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,830
well, maybe do we want to even
go there? Maybe we need to be a

445
00:28:07,830 --> 00:28:11,340
little more careful than that.
You know, there's no doubt

446
00:28:11,340 --> 00:28:14,730
that's something that NASA or
other organizations would wait,

447
00:28:14,940 --> 00:28:17,340
when they're determining who
they need to go to. And I think

448
00:28:17,340 --> 00:28:19,380
that's what they're trying to
figure out. Is that landscape,

449
00:28:19,650 --> 00:28:22,560
what they're going to come up
with, and who they're going to

450
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,170
work with how is still in
question. And we do have to

451
00:28:25,170 --> 00:28:27,390
remember at the hearings, and
what the Congress people have

452
00:28:27,390 --> 00:28:33,000
been asking for, they've been
telling the DOD, we want you to

453
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,880
look at historical information.
And we want you to work with

454
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,900
civilian groups. So really, they
were tasked to do that. And

455
00:28:39,900 --> 00:28:42,600
that's what they're doing. And
we also have to remember that

456
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:47,040
typically, kind of like we have
gotten an education through OS

457
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,520
app. And how a lot of this works
is that when a project is

458
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:55,290
started, you have just a few
people inside of the government

459
00:28:55,290 --> 00:28:58,470
agency that are in charge of
that project, like put together

460
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,830
the scope and everything, and
then those people put out the

461
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:08,190
request and go find contractors
to work on that project. And we

462
00:29:08,190 --> 00:29:10,590
haven't gotten to the stage
where the contractors have been

463
00:29:10,590 --> 00:29:14,640
hired or partnerships made to be
worked on this project. So it

464
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,740
would make sense that this would
be a point where they would want

465
00:29:16,740 --> 00:29:19,710
to go out to experts and say,
Hey, what do you think of this?

466
00:29:19,830 --> 00:29:23,730
Because certainly people inside
the MCU and in Galileo Project

467
00:29:24,030 --> 00:29:28,020
are not only the type of people,
they would want a contract to do

468
00:29:28,020 --> 00:29:31,440
this type of work. Many of them
are the people they've

469
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,290
contracted in the past to do
that kind of work.

470
00:29:35,550 --> 00:29:39,600
John Greenewald: While they do
that, they undoubtedly have to

471
00:29:39,630 --> 00:29:44,250
get into, in my opinion, because
of just the sensors not even I'm

472
00:29:44,250 --> 00:29:47,700
not alluding to it being
military craft, but get into a

473
00:29:47,700 --> 00:29:52,080
classified arena. And at what
point then do they essentially

474
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:56,460
taint the private sector,
whether it be Dr. Avi Loeb, or

475
00:29:56,460 --> 00:30:02,040
whether it'd be FCU or you a PX
or whomever that if they tap

476
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:07,830
that there has to be some kind
of either encroachment into a

477
00:30:07,830 --> 00:30:12,630
classified arena, or you're
withholding data, there's, in my

478
00:30:12,630 --> 00:30:16,350
opinion, there's, you can't have
the best of both worlds. And

479
00:30:16,350 --> 00:30:19,080
that was the biggest issue I had
in the beginning with the NASA

480
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:23,760
program, which they have now, in
my opinion changed their answer

481
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,820
on it. Originally, it was going
to be fully transparent, some of

482
00:30:26,820 --> 00:30:31,650
the people involved in the
effort weren't even going to be

483
00:30:31,650 --> 00:30:35,100
cleared for anything, because
they were dealing with purely

484
00:30:35,100 --> 00:30:39,840
unclassified and publicly
available data. So going back to

485
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,230
my question, do you feel that
there's risk there that they

486
00:30:43,230 --> 00:30:49,020
start tying up intelligent minds
that just want the truth into

487
00:30:49,020 --> 00:30:52,980
potentially having to get them
into NDAs? Or security

488
00:30:52,980 --> 00:30:56,010
clearances, which could then
hinder what they tell the

489
00:30:56,010 --> 00:30:56,490
public?

490
00:30:58,710 --> 00:31:06,120
Alejandro Rojas: I have? I would
guess I would say yes and no.

491
00:31:07,860 --> 00:31:13,380
What is, I guess I would put it
this way, the information that

492
00:31:13,410 --> 00:31:22,140
is not publicly available, that
is too sensitive. There's going

493
00:31:22,140 --> 00:31:26,370
to be sensitive information, no
matter who works on it. I think

494
00:31:26,370 --> 00:31:31,260
that, you know, we've seen in
the past, I guess, you know,

495
00:31:31,290 --> 00:31:34,260
even through, I think some of
your documentation, you probably

496
00:31:34,260 --> 00:31:38,580
know better than I were
technologies have been taken

497
00:31:38,580 --> 00:31:42,420
over by the government, and then
they go secret. And I think

498
00:31:42,420 --> 00:31:44,940
that's the kind of thing that
you're probably referring to,

499
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:49,380
let's say they got a case that
they're working on. Now, all of

500
00:31:49,380 --> 00:31:51,210
a sudden, the government comes
in and says, Hey, we want to

501
00:31:51,210 --> 00:31:54,030
work with you on this. But it's
got to be classified. And then

502
00:31:54,030 --> 00:31:59,850
that case goes classified. Could
that happen? I think certainly,

503
00:31:59,850 --> 00:32:02,880
but I think that, regardless of
whether they're talking to them

504
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:07,380
now or later, it would happen
either way. So the good thing I

505
00:32:07,380 --> 00:32:11,310
think about a NASA getting
involved, is that NASA

506
00:32:11,460 --> 00:32:14,610
scientists are very, very

507
00:32:21,300 --> 00:32:26,580
committed to transparency.
They're hard headed, and they're

508
00:32:26,580 --> 00:32:30,870
stubborn. And so any
organization like NASA, or

509
00:32:30,870 --> 00:32:34,140
scientific organization that
gets involved, that isn't as

510
00:32:34,140 --> 00:32:38,010
high to, you know, the
classified world, I think is a

511
00:32:38,010 --> 00:32:40,920
positive thing, and will always
help because those people are

512
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:44,490
going to be then in the inside.
And they're going to be able to

513
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,880
guide them when it comes to
public disclosure. And those are

514
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,730
the type of people who are going
to be more pro public

515
00:32:50,730 --> 00:32:54,300
disclosure. Scientists are
always looking for ways even,

516
00:32:54,630 --> 00:32:57,720
you can ask scientists who work
on classified projects, how do

517
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:03,600
we move this work we're doing
into the the whatever, open,

518
00:33:03,630 --> 00:33:08,370
transparent world of science, so
that whatever they're working on

519
00:33:08,370 --> 00:33:12,030
can be further developed, you
need a lot of heads. And when

520
00:33:12,030 --> 00:33:15,450
you're developing any
technologies and not you, it's

521
00:33:15,450 --> 00:33:18,510
really hard to do good science
in a classified setting, because

522
00:33:18,510 --> 00:33:20,790
the number of people you're
working with is severely

523
00:33:20,790 --> 00:33:26,130
reduced. So I guess that would
be the other one looking for

524
00:33:26,130 --> 00:33:28,920
silver linings, because I think
that's what we have to do when

525
00:33:28,980 --> 00:33:33,090
we're kind of powerless, as to
input on on, you know, that kind

526
00:33:33,090 --> 00:33:36,030
of thing happening is that the
good thing is that, you know,

527
00:33:36,090 --> 00:33:40,560
men will have more advocates for
public disclosure in there to

528
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,660
get more information out,
because they're certainly being

529
00:33:42,660 --> 00:33:47,310
tasked with, you know, sharing
information with the public,

530
00:33:47,310 --> 00:33:51,030
which was Chris Mellon, when he
originally wrote to the Congress

531
00:33:51,030 --> 00:33:53,820
saying we need to do this, that
I realized this stuff is

532
00:33:53,820 --> 00:33:57,540
probably going to have to stay
classified. Maybe even, you

533
00:33:57,540 --> 00:34:00,750
know, he said that, because he
wrote that around the time that

534
00:34:00,750 --> 00:34:02,970
you got that message from NGO
that this will all be

535
00:34:02,970 --> 00:34:06,210
classified. But luckily, the
Congress responded that you're

536
00:34:06,210 --> 00:34:10,140
right, we should do this. But we
do want public information. And

537
00:34:10,140 --> 00:34:12,570
they've been asking that the
public be briefed

538
00:34:13,380 --> 00:34:16,140
John Greenewald: the melon
article, I'm putting it on the

539
00:34:16,140 --> 00:34:20,250
list, but we've got like a six
hour interview already. So of

540
00:34:20,250 --> 00:34:25,320
topics that we could fill. So
that aside, I think, and then we

541
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:29,580
can move on. To my original
question, I think what you're

542
00:34:29,580 --> 00:34:32,550
saying I get your point, but
this is my concern in order for

543
00:34:32,550 --> 00:34:37,440
them to deal with that data. And
when you encroach into sensitive

544
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:42,120
systems that have captured that
data, that in some instances,

545
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:47,100
that scientist who may be 150%
well intentioned, to be

546
00:34:47,100 --> 00:34:51,330
transparent with the public has
to then either get into an NDA

547
00:34:51,330 --> 00:34:56,940
or a security clearance and oath
to see that data and the pure

548
00:34:58,020 --> 00:35:01,440
fact that they could capture
that data In and of itself could

549
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:05,280
be classified, ergo, they can't
tell you about it. And that's

550
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:10,470
where I get concerned where,
when Dr. Loeb, or, again, I'm

551
00:35:10,470 --> 00:35:12,300
just kind of giving the list of
what we've talked about, but

552
00:35:12,300 --> 00:35:16,920
SEIU UAPs, whomever starts
getting into that arena, that

553
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:19,620
they could be very well
intentioned for public

554
00:35:19,620 --> 00:35:23,370
transparency. But at the end of
the day, if they're seeing data

555
00:35:23,370 --> 00:35:26,640
that encroaches into that
classified arena, it's not that

556
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,430
they would be releasing the
details of some sensitive

557
00:35:29,430 --> 00:35:33,270
sensor, but rather, they would
be releasing the capabilities.

558
00:35:33,300 --> 00:35:35,670
And in some cases, those
capabilities would be

559
00:35:35,670 --> 00:35:40,860
classified. And again, ergo, you
are locking up the best lines,

560
00:35:40,890 --> 00:35:44,160
scientific minds. So I don't
have a right answer for it. But

561
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,310
I'm just curious, your thoughts?
Yeah. Are you are you concerned

562
00:35:47,310 --> 00:35:53,040
about that? Are we potentially
on a path to coordination

563
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,260
between the government and
private sector on the surface?

564
00:35:55,260 --> 00:35:59,160
That sounds good, but when you
really dissect it, that's when

565
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,760
you start getting into a really
dicey area where and I'll use

566
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,730
Luis Elizondo, as an example,
you press him on certain

567
00:36:05,730 --> 00:36:09,720
question, and it's Hey, I can't
tell you I've got my NDA. Well,

568
00:36:09,810 --> 00:36:15,690
that same exact scenario will
transfer to whomever doctor or

569
00:36:15,690 --> 00:36:21,180
PhD scientist, whomever gets
into that conversation I'm

570
00:36:21,300 --> 00:36:23,610
concerned about, but I don't see
a lot of people talking about so

571
00:36:23,610 --> 00:36:25,200
am I not, maybe I'm not,

572
00:36:25,770 --> 00:36:28,680
Alejandro Rojas: you're not
nuts, but it's kind of yelling

573
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:33,450
at the scream into the void or
something, because it's just the

574
00:36:33,450 --> 00:36:39,210
way the world works. You do.
It's just the way the world

575
00:36:39,210 --> 00:36:41,730
works. And when there's not a
whole lot to do about it. And,

576
00:36:41,910 --> 00:36:45,390
you know, it's nuanced also,
because it comes down to every

577
00:36:45,390 --> 00:36:49,650
individual person. So for
example, every scientist like an

578
00:36:49,650 --> 00:36:54,540
Abbe lobe has to determine what
their goals are, and what their

579
00:36:54,540 --> 00:36:57,570
priorities are, what they how
they want to do this. So for

580
00:36:57,570 --> 00:37:00,300
example, if they approach every
lobe and said, We would like you

581
00:37:00,300 --> 00:37:03,030
to help us with some of the
classified info, that's when

582
00:37:03,030 --> 00:37:06,360
Abby lobe has to kind of sit
down and say, think about the

583
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,240
things that you're asking about
right now, do I want to

584
00:37:09,240 --> 00:37:14,100
potentially be limited? Or do I
not? And if I am going to limit

585
00:37:14,100 --> 00:37:20,010
myself, I want to outline how,
but will that still be too much,

586
00:37:20,010 --> 00:37:22,650
will it still make it too
difficult, especially if my

587
00:37:22,650 --> 00:37:27,630
goals are, you know, to be as
transparent as possible. But the

588
00:37:27,630 --> 00:37:31,020
other thing is, is you know,
Galileo has extremely limited

589
00:37:31,020 --> 00:37:34,680
resources, whereas he's also
looking at I can have access to

590
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:38,580
better cameras, better
telemetry, satellite data, you

591
00:37:38,580 --> 00:37:42,330
know, I can have all the data, I
need to figure something out.

592
00:37:42,330 --> 00:37:45,960
Whereas if I stick with Galileo,
it might take me 510 years to

593
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,230
gather the funds and, and the
equipment, I need to get that

594
00:37:49,230 --> 00:37:52,650
kind of data. So it comes down
to each scientist and what they

595
00:37:52,650 --> 00:37:55,620
want to do, and what kinds of
things or projects are asking

596
00:37:55,620 --> 00:38:01,920
for. So for example, at Enigma
labs, you know, I think, you

597
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:06,300
know, we're building out
database with a ton of different

598
00:38:06,300 --> 00:38:09,660
cases, we're collecting
databases, digitizing tising

599
00:38:09,660 --> 00:38:13,740
databases, of sighting reports,
so they can be analyzed, we're

600
00:38:13,770 --> 00:38:17,130
developing machine learning,
that can go in there and analyze

601
00:38:17,130 --> 00:38:21,120
the cases for us to give us the
good cases, so we don't bother

602
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,360
with the rest. That's the sort
of thing I think the government

603
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,750
is going to want, as well. I
think we can do both the public

604
00:38:27,750 --> 00:38:33,150
and government in parallel. In
other words, here will work your

605
00:38:33,150 --> 00:38:36,450
dad over here, which is
classified and but then we can

606
00:38:36,450 --> 00:38:38,460
also work the public data over
here.

607
00:38:38,490 --> 00:38:40,050
John Greenewald: That's Are you
hinting there's a government

608
00:38:40,050 --> 00:38:42,690
contract between the Nigma labs,
and now I'm

609
00:38:42,690 --> 00:38:45,000
Alejandro Rojas: not at all but
I'm, what I'm saying. It's, it's

610
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,720
possible and we'd be open to it.
I see. You would be open to it.

611
00:38:49,290 --> 00:38:54,570
A lot of the FCU. Guys, the
board were around when we did

612
00:38:54,570 --> 00:38:57,450
this with Bigelow, little did we
know, we were doing it with

613
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:01,800
Well, I didn't know because I
didn't sign the NDA. I was the

614
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:05,940
only one to refuse to you. But
you know, and also, you know,

615
00:39:06,780 --> 00:39:09,390
there was only one of our board
members, Robert Powell, who I

616
00:39:09,390 --> 00:39:13,530
think signed the NDA. I think
the rest of us were, well, I was

617
00:39:13,530 --> 00:39:17,610
asked to but I refused. And
everybody else were state

618
00:39:17,610 --> 00:39:20,970
directors. So they weren't asked
to do that. But the point being

619
00:39:20,970 --> 00:39:27,120
that we've done it before. And
you know, and it was tough. The

620
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:31,380
whole Bigelow thing is obviously
very controversial. To be

621
00:39:31,380 --> 00:39:35,550
honest, I was pro the
relationship I was it did not

622
00:39:36,030 --> 00:39:41,370
get executed in the way that I
would have preferred at least as

623
00:39:41,370 --> 00:39:44,910
far as transparency. I was
definitely advocating for a

624
00:39:44,910 --> 00:39:49,830
little more transparency that
happened. But it was it was

625
00:39:49,830 --> 00:39:52,920
really, I think, a net positive
because there were a few great

626
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:56,580
cases that got to be
investigated in a much more

627
00:39:56,610 --> 00:39:59,730
sophisticated manner than they
would have been otherwise.

628
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,370
John Greenewald: One of the
biggest things like away from

629
00:40:02,370 --> 00:40:05,970
the debate on what was official
and UFO this or paranormal that

630
00:40:05,970 --> 00:40:12,690
so we won't have that debate.
But But I think the story like

631
00:40:12,690 --> 00:40:15,780
the way that it's and we know
this part for a fact I'm not

632
00:40:15,780 --> 00:40:19,140
saying story isn't fictional but
the way the story goes is that

633
00:40:19,140 --> 00:40:23,670
Bigelow had purchased the the
MUFON Case file database, right?

634
00:40:23,670 --> 00:40:26,640
Correct me if I'm just
misrepresenting that, like, that

635
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:27,000
was a big

636
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:30,030
Alejandro Rojas: that was it
wasn't purchasing the database,

637
00:40:30,030 --> 00:40:35,730
it was access? Limited, even it
was accessed.

638
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:41,670
John Greenewald: I thought it
was Okay, gotcha. Okay, so I

639
00:40:41,700 --> 00:40:44,130
yeah, I miss worded, but
essentially, he was accessing

640
00:40:44,130 --> 00:40:47,190
the MUFON database. So he, he
got all that data, though, like

641
00:40:47,190 --> 00:40:51,540
he was able to pull it in. And
as far as I know, bass had

642
00:40:51,540 --> 00:40:55,200
created multiple databases,
which included MUFON, and all

643
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:59,430
this other work. So the biggest
question that I have, and I want

644
00:40:59,430 --> 00:41:02,940
to throw it out to you, just for
audience sake, and conversation

645
00:41:02,940 --> 00:41:09,180
sake, is that $22 million, as we
know when to offset? We know

646
00:41:09,180 --> 00:41:12,450
that from the paperwork, the DIA
has released that official

647
00:41:12,450 --> 00:41:15,630
paperwork. So there's really no,
no question mark about that we

648
00:41:15,630 --> 00:41:19,080
have it all broken down in
documents, in addition to

649
00:41:19,290 --> 00:41:22,110
Pentagon statements that have
been around for years. So all of

650
00:41:22,110 --> 00:41:26,400
that groundwork, is there. So
$22 million goes over there. And

651
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:29,970
he has collected all this data.
I want to preface the question

652
00:41:29,970 --> 00:41:32,400
saying to at least to my
audience, but you as well, I

653
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:35,730
know you're not a spokesperson
for Bigelow, this is rather just

654
00:41:35,730 --> 00:41:40,020
a question on what your thoughts
are. But with that 22 million

655
00:41:40,740 --> 00:41:44,910
taxpayer dollars goes over
there, we get the 38 dirt

656
00:41:44,910 --> 00:41:50,370
reports. So those come back. But
the way that it's been reported

657
00:41:50,370 --> 00:41:55,260
in some media outlets is that
there's just this massive pile

658
00:41:55,290 --> 00:41:59,760
of data, including these
databases and otherwise. And

659
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:04,710
it's and it's denied, at this
point by the Pentagon that they

660
00:42:04,710 --> 00:42:09,360
did that work. So my question
is, why doesn't he just release

661
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:15,360
it if it really was funded by
the taxpayer dollars, which is

662
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,660
the story and again, please
correct me if I'm wrong. But if

663
00:42:18,660 --> 00:42:20,760
it was funded by taxpayer
dollars, then it's not

664
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:25,620
necessarily Bigelow Aerospace is
property. And if the government

665
00:42:25,620 --> 00:42:29,250
wants to deny it, then what
stops him from just saying, you

666
00:42:29,250 --> 00:42:32,970
know, minus the personal
identifying information? So of

667
00:42:32,970 --> 00:42:36,270
course, you know, those fields,
I'm saying, take those away. I

668
00:42:36,270 --> 00:42:39,510
don't I don't want to know
anybody's address. But I mean,

669
00:42:39,510 --> 00:42:42,540
the data that's there that data
that we've talked about here for

670
00:42:42,540 --> 00:42:46,980
the last 45 minutes or so. It
sounds like you and I both paid

671
00:42:46,980 --> 00:42:51,960
for that. So yeah. What do you
what do you think the holdup is?

672
00:42:52,260 --> 00:42:55,860
Alejandro Rojas: No, I agree
with you. 100%. I think that I

673
00:42:55,860 --> 00:43:03,090
do not agree with the the
opaqueness of the Bigelow group.

674
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,390
I completely disagree with it,
to be honest,

675
00:43:06,390 --> 00:43:08,130
John Greenewald: I think that
disagree with their handling,

676
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,230
just to make sure, yeah, okay,
handling

677
00:43:10,260 --> 00:43:12,180
Alejandro Rojas: that they
should be more transparent. If

678
00:43:12,180 --> 00:43:16,230
they're truly supposedly a
scientific group, or, of course,

679
00:43:16,230 --> 00:43:20,280
they don't exist anymore. But if
they were, they would want to be

680
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,070
more transparent, and they've
never been transparent. And I

681
00:43:23,070 --> 00:43:27,870
think that's a huge problem. And
it's why they've limited their

682
00:43:27,870 --> 00:43:31,890
value to the scientific
community for that reason. And I

683
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:38,220
do not agree with them also.
making statements that they're

684
00:43:38,220 --> 00:43:42,750
not ready to substantiate, I
don't I, it's a huge pet peeve

685
00:43:42,750 --> 00:43:48,270
of mine, that I can't stand it.
Because then it's just hearsay

686
00:43:48,330 --> 00:43:52,950
and speculation. Again, getting
back to that, and it's useless.

687
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:56,580
And I think that's a lot of the
criticism I get is that people

688
00:43:56,580 --> 00:44:00,540
are confused. They're like,
aren't you a fan of Bigelow and,

689
00:44:00,540 --> 00:44:03,930
and all those guys, I can be a
fan, but I could still criticize

690
00:44:03,930 --> 00:44:08,340
them. I mean, we're all
colleagues here. And you know

691
00:44:08,370 --> 00:44:10,740
what, I think people don't
realize this when we get

692
00:44:10,740 --> 00:44:14,130
together like FCU. And I'm
sitting next, Eric Davis, and

693
00:44:14,130 --> 00:44:18,390
we're buddies and everything.
We're also all, you know, just

694
00:44:18,540 --> 00:44:24,000
discussing how to do things, and
not necessarily agreeing on all

695
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:27,210
things. But we're calling to
work together. And that's how it

696
00:44:27,210 --> 00:44:31,260
is. That's how people work at
work. You know, you all discuss

697
00:44:31,260 --> 00:44:33,990
and have ideas the boss decides
what to do in this case, the

698
00:44:33,990 --> 00:44:38,670
boss has big love. And that's
what you do. That's how the

699
00:44:38,670 --> 00:44:43,260
world works. So, you know, yeah,
that is one side that I disagree

700
00:44:43,260 --> 00:44:47,730
with. And it's it I think, why a
lot of that stuff is just gonna

701
00:44:47,730 --> 00:44:50,550
get lost to history. If you're
not sharing it, who's going to

702
00:44:50,550 --> 00:44:54,360
know how or why you were
important. Because you said you

703
00:44:54,360 --> 00:45:00,210
saw you know, big walls and and
outside your home after You were

704
00:45:00,210 --> 00:45:04,020
at Skinwalker, where people have
seen them too. Great. It's

705
00:45:04,020 --> 00:45:07,950
that's just another paranormal
ghost story that you can have on

706
00:45:07,950 --> 00:45:11,910
a TV show, but it does nothing
for learning much about what's

707
00:45:11,910 --> 00:45:19,080
going on. So I agree with you on
that. This is funny, someone

708
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:21,600
saying, Well, why aren't you
being transparent? Being

709
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:24,840
involved with deal, which is the
stupidest thing? This is the

710
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:26,490
kind of thing. And it's sad.

711
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,250
John Greenewald: Oh, wait, hold
on. Let me let me first off say

712
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:31,770
thank you to Red Panda koala.
I'm not entirely sure what the

713
00:45:31,770 --> 00:45:33,450
root of this question is. So I
mean, I'll

714
00:45:33,450 --> 00:45:35,550
Alejandro Rojas: get to that
though. Because he's talking

715
00:45:35,550 --> 00:45:39,930
about this topic and
transparency and okay. And to

716
00:45:39,930 --> 00:45:43,560
what degree? Now? It's kind of a
really stupid question. Mostly

717
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:45,180
overall, but I'll get to it
anyway.

718
00:45:46,530 --> 00:45:49,620
John Greenewald: I don't. Okay,
I want to stress, I don't know

719
00:45:49,620 --> 00:45:51,060
why. So you have to help me.

720
00:45:51,390 --> 00:45:53,280
Alejandro Rojas: I will. I'll
explain the whole thing. Okay.

721
00:45:53,880 --> 00:46:00,270
So yeah, that's the hard part
with the Bigelow stuff. And and

722
00:46:00,300 --> 00:46:02,940
But getting back to your
question, $22 million was

723
00:46:02,970 --> 00:46:06,540
taxpayer dollars were spent, we
should have access to all of

724
00:46:06,540 --> 00:46:09,120
that. You know, I know you've
been looking for the reports

725
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:12,690
that McCaskey says are out
there. He outlined in his book,

726
00:46:12,870 --> 00:46:16,080
all of the reports that they put
together, where are those, you

727
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:20,880
and I both got the alleged group
of all the files that the

728
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:25,560
government can share via FOIA on
OS app? And none of those were

729
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:28,770
in there? Where are they? Why
weren't they in there? Or maybe

730
00:46:28,770 --> 00:46:31,410
one was in there. But it wasn't
there. It was mostly the

731
00:46:31,410 --> 00:46:34,980
d'oeuvres and, and so yeah, why
aren't they sharing that

732
00:46:34,980 --> 00:46:38,550
information, we did pay for that
we should have access to that. I

733
00:46:38,550 --> 00:46:41,670
agree with you 1,000% on that,
and I don't see any good reason

734
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:45,600
for not sharing that
information. But getting back to

735
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:49,680
Red Panda, koala, and Nygma.
We're just barely starting, we

736
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:54,360
haven't even got out there. But
to this very point, we've, we've

737
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:59,490
put out a post blog post
recently called transparency for

738
00:46:59,490 --> 00:47:02,430
data privacy for people. And the
point is that we're going to

739
00:47:02,430 --> 00:47:04,890
share all the data we get, I
mean, aren't that's the whole

740
00:47:04,890 --> 00:47:07,890
point of our app. And our
website is to share data and

741
00:47:07,890 --> 00:47:11,070
gather data and make that data
available for people to do more

742
00:47:11,070 --> 00:47:15,720
research and provide tools for
research. So that's what we're

743
00:47:15,720 --> 00:47:19,860
doing. And in that blog post,
we've committed to sharing all

744
00:47:19,860 --> 00:47:22,530
the data we gather, which is
exactly what we're going to do.

745
00:47:22,740 --> 00:47:24,900
And I think that's a huge
service. Because we're grabbing

746
00:47:24,900 --> 00:47:27,870
databases I think people don't
even know exists, and we're

747
00:47:27,870 --> 00:47:31,770
going to have them in there,
then all of our read all of our

748
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:36,600
raw data, you're going to be
able to download and use it all

749
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:39,600
you want. Now we're going to
have, we're going to be taking

750
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:42,660
that data and putting it into a
database that optimizes it and

751
00:47:42,660 --> 00:47:46,050
then doing other stuff to make
that data better for research.

752
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:50,700
And we will have some paint
components, but pure data we're

753
00:47:50,700 --> 00:47:54,030
sharing. And not only that, you
can look at everything. Why is

754
00:47:54,030 --> 00:47:57,240
it a stupid question? Because
this is kind of it's a fair

755
00:47:57,240 --> 00:48:01,830
question. I want to know. Let me
explain why. And it's one of the

756
00:48:01,830 --> 00:48:04,800
pet peeves and maybe you'll
you'll agree, because it's it's

757
00:48:05,220 --> 00:48:12,540
it's the type of thing that is
sloppy, brainless. Research that

758
00:48:12,540 --> 00:48:19,350
just causes this sort of
fighting and ridiculous

759
00:48:19,350 --> 00:48:24,540
conspiracies to happen. And
here's what I mean by that. How

760
00:48:24,540 --> 00:48:28,860
is How involved is Thiel? What
the heck even kind of question

761
00:48:28,860 --> 00:48:32,640
is, so this is how this came up.
Someone identified that Peter

762
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:36,870
Thiel said he was going to spend
money on UAP. Then they saw

763
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,690
there's a company called enigma
that starting and they're like,

764
00:48:39,720 --> 00:48:43,590
oh, my gosh, there we go.
There's Peter Thiel. That's

765
00:48:43,590 --> 00:48:47,340
ridiculous. There's no
connection. That's just a joke.

766
00:48:47,610 --> 00:48:50,790
It's It's just I hate even
addressing our answering

767
00:48:50,790 --> 00:48:52,290
question, because it's who

768
00:48:53,610 --> 00:48:55,530
John Greenewald: I want to jump
in, because I want to be fair

769
00:48:55,530 --> 00:48:59,760
here. There was no accusation.
They just, it is.

770
00:49:00,150 --> 00:49:02,340
Alejandro Rojas: So it's a
rumor, right? Yeah, it's a

771
00:49:02,340 --> 00:49:02,940
rumor. So

772
00:49:02,940 --> 00:49:04,470
John Greenewald: Peter Thiel is
not involved.

773
00:49:05,250 --> 00:49:07,230
Alejandro Rojas: As far as I
know, he's not involved at all.

774
00:49:10,290 --> 00:49:12,690
John Greenewald: And where I
want to be fair, is that as you

775
00:49:12,690 --> 00:49:17,580
very well know, the internet
world is really not accurate all

776
00:49:17,580 --> 00:49:20,880
the time. So I can't fault
anybody for asking that if they

777
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:24,000
thought that it was true. I
don't want to label it a stupid

778
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:25,680
question. Let's be a little
fair.

779
00:49:26,250 --> 00:49:28,950
Alejandro Rojas: I'll be fair,
obviously. Well, it's Friday

780
00:49:28,950 --> 00:49:31,650
morning. I'm a little charged
up, be honest. But that's okay.

781
00:49:31,650 --> 00:49:33,120
John Greenewald: Caffeine, for
crying out loud.

782
00:49:34,350 --> 00:49:37,140
Alejandro Rojas: I'm drinking
coffee like crazy. But know the

783
00:49:37,140 --> 00:49:42,210
point. Good point. It's just
frustrating because it's just so

784
00:49:42,210 --> 00:49:44,490
stupid. You know,

785
00:49:45,089 --> 00:49:47,489
John Greenewald: half the
rumors. And I think

786
00:49:48,299 --> 00:49:51,509
Alejandro Rojas: yeah, and not
only that, it's it's the the

787
00:49:51,509 --> 00:49:55,439
intention of the rumor is to
defame people right out of the

788
00:49:55,439 --> 00:49:59,789
gate. So it's kind of funny
because earlier we're talking

789
00:49:59,789 --> 00:50:02,579
how We have thick skin and we
got to not like, let it get

790
00:50:02,579 --> 00:50:05,609
under our skin when these things
happen. And I'm sorry, red panda

791
00:50:05,609 --> 00:50:08,849
qualify as being a little too
harsh there. I don't mean I

792
00:50:08,849 --> 00:50:11,309
guess what I mean, it's the
original kind of assumption was

793
00:50:11,309 --> 00:50:16,439
stupid. Because it is, you know,
that's kind of dumb. It's not

794
00:50:16,439 --> 00:50:19,139
research, you wouldn't do that
you wouldn't even do you

795
00:50:19,139 --> 00:50:22,019
wouldn't even think of doing
that, what you would do is start

796
00:50:22,019 --> 00:50:26,129
to ask questions, request
documents, figure out what's

797
00:50:26,129 --> 00:50:29,219
going on, even if you didn't
believe me, go try to prove me

798
00:50:29,219 --> 00:50:34,259
wrong. But you wouldn't just go
make proclamations like that.

799
00:50:34,409 --> 00:50:37,409
And that's what's really
frustrating because it starts

800
00:50:37,409 --> 00:50:40,949
off these rumors and hearsay.
And, you know, I don't worry

801
00:50:40,949 --> 00:50:43,889
about it too much anyway,
because I think that people are

802
00:50:43,889 --> 00:50:47,489
going to be really excited when
we launch because, and

803
00:50:47,489 --> 00:50:50,309
hopefully, like I said, we'll
have the articles up in the next

804
00:50:50,309 --> 00:50:52,559
week, which is going to be kind
of the first thing we're really

805
00:50:52,559 --> 00:50:55,769
launching. And I think people
will see just the huge amount of

806
00:50:55,769 --> 00:51:01,349
value on the all of this free
data that we're providing. And I

807
00:51:01,349 --> 00:51:04,289
think people are going to be
very grateful for the tools and

808
00:51:04,289 --> 00:51:07,229
information we're providing. Of
course, there'll be critics, but

809
00:51:07,229 --> 00:51:09,989
we're listening to critics. In
fact, we're plugged in and we

810
00:51:10,019 --> 00:51:12,449
with the scientific community,
and we're taking a lot of

811
00:51:12,449 --> 00:51:16,019
feedback from them, and making a
lot of changes based on their

812
00:51:16,019 --> 00:51:22,289
feedback. So yeah, we're already
very transparent. We've got a

813
00:51:22,289 --> 00:51:25,589
lot of people meeting. But this
is the kind of reason why we

814
00:51:25,589 --> 00:51:28,289
wrote that blog in that we do
have this privacy for the

815
00:51:28,289 --> 00:51:36,419
people. aspect. All of that, you
know, is that? I would say read

816
00:51:36,419 --> 00:51:39,689
the Brock blog, it's not very,
you don't have to know who the

817
00:51:39,689 --> 00:51:43,379
people are completely involved.
And the reason why is there's a

818
00:51:43,379 --> 00:51:47,819
safety concern for those people.
One, when it comes to the SVU,

819
00:51:48,179 --> 00:51:51,509
several of our scientists are
anonymous, some of the names

820
00:51:51,599 --> 00:51:54,659
that you might see on papers are
not real names. They're pseudo

821
00:51:54,659 --> 00:51:58,259
names, because the scientists
can't don't feel comfortable

822
00:51:58,259 --> 00:52:01,079
sharing their names. At this
point, there's still too much of

823
00:52:01,079 --> 00:52:04,499
a taboo, and it'll affect their
career. Some people will say,

824
00:52:04,499 --> 00:52:08,519
well, that's not being
transparent. But what would you

825
00:52:08,519 --> 00:52:11,939
rather have the expertise of
this, this scientist so that we

826
00:52:11,939 --> 00:52:15,389
can have this analysis and have
this great information and data

827
00:52:15,389 --> 00:52:19,409
to share with people? Or would
you have this person's name,

828
00:52:19,439 --> 00:52:23,039
somebody you don't even know. So
I think those are kind of the

829
00:52:23,039 --> 00:52:26,399
balances. And the other thing is
that, you know, people shouldn't

830
00:52:26,399 --> 00:52:31,799
have to fear losing their jobs
or being harassed online, for

831
00:52:31,799 --> 00:52:35,039
getting involved with this
topic. You know, none of my

832
00:52:35,039 --> 00:52:39,629
colleagues want the type of
online harassment that you and

833
00:52:39,629 --> 00:52:42,749
I, you know, take every day.

834
00:52:44,100 --> 00:52:47,190
John Greenewald: Nobody harasses
me even clearer. Yeah.

835
00:52:48,270 --> 00:52:51,960
Alejandro Rojas: Or the type of
harassment that, you know, some

836
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:54,480
of our friends and colleagues
who have recently left this

837
00:52:54,480 --> 00:52:58,590
field received in the last
couple of years, you know, just

838
00:52:58,590 --> 00:53:01,830
the same topic that we started
this whole thing off with. So

839
00:53:02,790 --> 00:53:04,890
yeah, so those are the kind of
things

840
00:53:05,610 --> 00:53:08,370
John Greenewald: so bottom line
red panda koala, not a stupid

841
00:53:08,370 --> 00:53:11,160
question. Alejandra is just
cranky on a Friday morning.

842
00:53:12,210 --> 00:53:14,430
Alejandro Rojas: I guess it was
a stupid rumor. Not as stupid.

843
00:53:14,430 --> 00:53:15,270
It was stupid.

844
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:18,420
John Greenewald: And that I can
appreciate so I Yeah, so not a

845
00:53:18,420 --> 00:53:22,980
stupid question. But thank you
for that explanation on in

846
00:53:22,980 --> 00:53:24,540
question on both sides. And I

847
00:53:24,540 --> 00:53:29,820
Alejandro Rojas: love red pandas
and koalas. I'm, I'm a member of

848
00:53:29,820 --> 00:53:32,490
the San Diego Zoo. And those are
the two places I like to visit

849
00:53:32,490 --> 00:53:36,420
the most. So I greatly
appreciate

850
00:53:36,900 --> 00:53:39,780
John Greenewald: that. gives
some hugs to the to the animals

851
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:42,210
Alejandro Rojas: kissing it, but
a little bit gets a little

852
00:53:42,210 --> 00:53:42,750
harsher.

853
00:53:45,030 --> 00:53:47,430
John Greenewald: timewise How
you doing? I know I said to 12

854
00:53:47,430 --> 00:53:51,090
o'clock where I think I forget
if you're in Arizona. Are we on

855
00:53:51,090 --> 00:53:55,200
the same? I was forgetting in
Arizona. Another friend of mine

856
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:57,840
I see in the chat is also in
Arizona. I've known him for

857
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:01,380
years and years. And I always
wonder like are we on the same

858
00:54:01,380 --> 00:54:04,500
timezone at this point? Or is it
that point is I know a

859
00:54:04,500 --> 00:54:05,220
difference?

860
00:54:05,670 --> 00:54:08,220
Alejandro Rojas: I always work
together. That's how I remember

861
00:54:08,220 --> 00:54:12,480
it. Like Summer, winter is when
we're separate. Ah,

862
00:54:12,510 --> 00:54:15,690
John Greenewald: I see. All
right, I'm still confused. Okay,

863
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:18,630
but timewise Are you out of 12
which is fine.

864
00:54:20,070 --> 00:54:22,800
Alejandro Rojas: Oh, yeah.
timewise um, yeah, I shouldn't

865
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:24,630
spend a whole lot more time I
can go past not

866
00:54:24,630 --> 00:54:26,700
John Greenewald: a problem. Not
too much. No, because I have

867
00:54:26,700 --> 00:54:28,770
like 87 things more to ask and
then

868
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:31,410
Alejandro Rojas: Okay, so maybe
if we could do one,

869
00:54:31,710 --> 00:54:35,190
John Greenewald: that's fine.
Next week, you guys are gonna be

870
00:54:35,190 --> 00:54:38,580
I'm so bummed I want to go I'm
gonna try and sneak away. I just

871
00:54:38,580 --> 00:54:43,440
don't think I can. But you guys
are doing the UFO Congress. For

872
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:47,580
those I miss live events I know
in we were talking about UFO

873
00:54:47,610 --> 00:54:52,200
Twitter livestream that I was
doing but people sometimes

874
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:56,160
really harp on live events. I
love them. I miss them so much.

875
00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:59,610
COVID obviously has prohibited a
lot and now we're starting to

876
00:54:59,610 --> 00:55:02,580
open up up and, and do these
things again. And sadly,

877
00:55:02,580 --> 00:55:05,520
schedule wise, I'm not able to
get out there with you guys, but

878
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:08,490
I missed them for anybody who
wants to get away from all that.

879
00:55:08,940 --> 00:55:12,420
UFO Twitter drama. The live
events are so much fun because

880
00:55:12,420 --> 00:55:15,690
it's such an eclectic group of
people. And you guys run a great

881
00:55:15,690 --> 00:55:18,780
event because there's tons of
people, you get great speakers,

882
00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:22,530
a wide variety of speakers to I
mean, it's not always everybody

883
00:55:22,530 --> 00:55:24,780
that you're going to sit down
and go, I believe 100% of what

884
00:55:24,780 --> 00:55:28,440
they're saying. But rather you
get to see the presentations and

885
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:32,520
decide for yourself what it may
mean. So I'm not pitching it.

886
00:55:32,670 --> 00:55:36,480
But I want you to what is the
event? It's next weekend? Yeah,

887
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:41,160
how can or next week I should
say, and weekend? Because yeah,

888
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:44,040
it starts when a Wednesday? Are
you guys starting it? When does

889
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:44,250
it?

890
00:55:44,430 --> 00:55:46,920
Alejandro Rojas: Yeah, so it'll
start Wednesday, and this time,

891
00:55:46,950 --> 00:55:52,710
the Wednesday the 12, which I'll
be dinner at night. Then the

892
00:55:52,710 --> 00:55:55,290
event goes on with speakers
Thursday, Friday, Saturday,

893
00:55:55,380 --> 00:55:58,500
Saturday night, there's an
ending banquet, and then Sunday,

894
00:55:58,500 --> 00:56:01,230
there'll be a few workshops. But
that's essentially what it is.

895
00:56:02,070 --> 00:56:06,570
Yeah. And back, I was just
handed I can give your listeners

896
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:12,360
a special. So if they go get a
ticket, either an online ticket

897
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:15,090
because it is a hybrid event, so
you can buy an online only

898
00:56:15,090 --> 00:56:18,990
ticket. If you use the quote
Code, Black vaults, all large

899
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:27,870
case Black Bolt, you'll get 20%
off of Yeah, you'll get 20% off

900
00:56:28,110 --> 00:56:32,010
on lecture ticket or virtual
school and single session. So

901
00:56:32,010 --> 00:56:36,090
yeah, you'll get 20% off if you
use black bolt. But yeah, we've

902
00:56:36,090 --> 00:56:39,570
got all kinds of speakers.
Sorry, I get distracted with all

903
00:56:39,570 --> 00:56:42,780
the questions, lots of great
questions, guys. Sorry, I won't

904
00:56:42,780 --> 00:56:44,910
be able to get to all of them.
But I'll be at the conference.

905
00:56:44,910 --> 00:56:48,270
So you can ask them there. Or
next time I'm on John show,

906
00:56:48,270 --> 00:56:54,810
maybe we need to come back and
do some more. But we've got one

907
00:56:54,810 --> 00:56:59,190
of my buddies. And I think
someone that you know, not all

908
00:56:59,190 --> 00:57:03,510
of our buddies, our mutual
friends. But I think this one is

909
00:57:03,510 --> 00:57:07,950
Brian Bender, of Politico. He's
become a very good friend. And

910
00:57:07,950 --> 00:57:11,130
we've worked on some articles
together. But what's great about

911
00:57:11,130 --> 00:57:14,250
Brian, he's another incredible
writer and researcher, where

912
00:57:14,250 --> 00:57:18,150
there's been times where we
haven't coordinated on articles

913
00:57:18,150 --> 00:57:22,050
on this topic, but he still does
amazing work like amazing

914
00:57:22,050 --> 00:57:24,750
research. In fact, I know, there
was an article you were in. And

915
00:57:24,750 --> 00:57:27,120
I was surprised because I didn't
even know till the article came

916
00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:30,540
out. But it was great. I think
he's probably mentioned,

917
00:57:30,570 --> 00:57:32,250
John Greenewald: pretty
secretive about that stuff, all

918
00:57:32,250 --> 00:57:32,310
the

919
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:37,140
Alejandro Rojas: behind the
scenes. So yeah, that's gonna be

920
00:57:37,140 --> 00:57:39,900
really good talking about his
involvement with all of this, he

921
00:57:39,900 --> 00:57:43,170
is trying to still get a special
guest speaker, we'll see if that

922
00:57:43,170 --> 00:57:46,380
happens. But regardless, his
story is really, really

923
00:57:46,380 --> 00:57:52,320
interesting. And it kind of
gives you an idea of the kind of

924
00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:55,890
how it works, how the weirdness
and how the taboo still exists.

925
00:57:56,100 --> 00:57:58,170
There were a couple of people
saying, I don't know anybody who

926
00:57:58,170 --> 00:58:01,590
wants to government job for
getting into this stuff. I know

927
00:58:01,590 --> 00:58:05,340
you don't if you don't ask
people in government, if people

928
00:58:05,340 --> 00:58:07,830
have lost their jobs, and even
worse, people who haven't been

929
00:58:07,830 --> 00:58:12,510
able to get jobs, were being
into this stuff. And I can tell

930
00:58:12,510 --> 00:58:17,850
you this behind the scenes, the
involvement of people in this

931
00:58:17,850 --> 00:58:23,130
topic is a factor. Even right
now, in as things are

932
00:58:23,130 --> 00:58:26,880
coalescing, and these government
agencies are figuring out what

933
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:33,990
to do. It's a factor. So it is
to this day, an issue. Um, but

934
00:58:33,990 --> 00:58:36,510
let's see who else are we going
to have? Speaking of government

935
00:58:36,510 --> 00:58:40,440
people, we're going to have John
Ramirez who was former CIA guy

936
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:44,310
who has some really interesting
perspectives on stuff. But he's

937
00:58:44,310 --> 00:58:49,110
going to be talking about at
first, you know, some of his

938
00:58:51,870 --> 00:58:54,870
perspectives on some of the new
legislation which is great

939
00:58:54,870 --> 00:58:57,540
because the insider kind of
perspectives always helpful and

940
00:58:57,750 --> 00:59:00,240
a lot of our speakers are going
to be talking about that. We're

941
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:03,450
going to have Bryce Zabel, who
of course is doing need to know

942
00:59:03,450 --> 00:59:08,100
with Ross Coltart and he's going
to be there talking a lot about

943
00:59:08,100 --> 00:59:13,110
this kind of stuff. Let's see,
we will have I'm really excited

944
00:59:13,110 --> 00:59:17,160
about Stacey Wright, who runs
Phoenix moved on the Arizona

945
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:19,980
MUFON. She's going to be
speaking about the Phoenix

946
00:59:19,980 --> 00:59:22,590
lights, which is of course the
big deal and a popular sighting

947
00:59:22,590 --> 00:59:27,510
out here. And she hasn't done
that before. So she'll have some

948
00:59:27,510 --> 00:59:34,530
new and different stuff to share
there. We're going to have mean

949
00:59:34,530 --> 00:59:36,000
look at the list. There's so
many other

950
00:59:36,149 --> 00:59:38,189
John Greenewald: I've got a
month so I was looking. You've

951
00:59:38,189 --> 00:59:42,929
got Ben Hansen, Micah Hanks
James Fox, yeah, it's a good

952
00:59:42,929 --> 00:59:48,299
people. So UFO congress.com If
you guys are interested, and

953
00:59:48,779 --> 00:59:52,409
yeah, again, I know that the
live events in some circles get

954
00:59:52,409 --> 00:59:56,759
a bad name but there's so much
fun. I really do recommend them.

955
00:59:56,759 --> 01:00:00,929
I miss live speaking. I'm going
to be doing a Yeah, it's

956
01:00:00,929 --> 01:00:04,979
digital, but a presentation to
UNLV next week, and just reminds

957
01:00:04,979 --> 01:00:08,459
me how much I love being able to
reach out to audiences. And,

958
01:00:08,759 --> 01:00:11,699
look, we all know not all
speakers are going to, you know,

959
01:00:11,699 --> 01:00:15,029
appeal to every single audience
member. And with you guys

960
01:00:15,029 --> 01:00:17,309
running the conferences, I'm
sure you know that too. But it's

961
01:00:17,309 --> 01:00:21,749
a way to like see the names that
we sometimes only see on Twitter

962
01:00:21,749 --> 01:00:26,249
or Facebook or on a live stream,
you get to see them upfront. And

963
01:00:26,309 --> 01:00:28,649
it offers a different
perspective. Sometimes it

964
01:00:28,649 --> 01:00:31,949
reinforces that I think people
aren't telling the truth. But

965
01:00:31,949 --> 01:00:35,249
then other times you go, Oh,
wow, think that that's a lot

966
01:00:35,249 --> 01:00:38,669
more in depth than what I really
thought. So it's, it's a great

967
01:00:38,669 --> 01:00:38,999
way.

968
01:00:39,690 --> 01:00:40,860
Alejandro Rojas: And you
probably feel the same, it's a

969
01:00:40,860 --> 01:00:45,390
little cringy, in that. It can
be a little uncomfortable for

970
01:00:45,390 --> 01:00:48,030
some of us speakers who are, you
know, feel like some of the

971
01:00:48,030 --> 01:00:51,870
other topics are kind of weird
and stuff. And again, I don't

972
01:00:51,870 --> 01:00:54,420
choose these speakers for this
event, you can blame me more for

973
01:00:54,420 --> 01:00:58,260
the MCU speakers. But if it was
up to me, but you know, the

974
01:00:58,260 --> 01:01:00,570
difference is you don't have as
many people to those type of

975
01:01:00,570 --> 01:01:04,110
events. So this is the Congress,
I've always said it's more

976
01:01:04,110 --> 01:01:07,530
populous, it's more about what
people are talking about on this

977
01:01:07,530 --> 01:01:11,970
topic than necessarily, you
know, science, strictly science

978
01:01:11,970 --> 01:01:18,720
or hard research. Which is a lot
more boring to some people. But,

979
01:01:18,930 --> 01:01:21,690
you know, a lot of this is
button people like John Dover.

980
01:01:21,690 --> 01:01:24,870
And of course, we'll be showing
James box's film for the first

981
01:01:24,870 --> 01:01:28,530
time. In fact, his official
premieres the day after he's

982
01:01:28,530 --> 01:01:32,730
going to be showing it at here
in Arizona for the Congress. So

983
01:01:32,730 --> 01:01:36,540
it's a pre premiere showing, and
then David MARLAR, who is one of

984
01:01:36,540 --> 01:01:42,300
those hard researchers is going
to have a special announcement

985
01:01:42,390 --> 01:01:46,800
at the event as well, that he's
really excited about. But yeah,

986
01:01:46,830 --> 01:01:50,250
Marla is absolutely one of my
favorite researchers. He's

987
01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:51,150
amazing.

988
01:01:51,870 --> 01:01:54,060
John Greenewald: Yeah, he's,
he's a great guy, a great

989
01:01:54,060 --> 01:01:56,970
researcher has a heck of an
archive that I've been blessed

990
01:01:56,970 --> 01:01:58,800
to see firsthand. So

991
01:01:59,189 --> 01:02:02,459
Alejandro Rojas: and let me ask
you this. Sure. Sorry. How do

992
01:02:02,459 --> 01:02:05,099
you feel about it? There's just
so much to talk about how do you

993
01:02:05,099 --> 01:02:10,019
feel about the Aereo case? You
know, you and I are both more

994
01:02:10,019 --> 01:02:13,259
conservative when it comes to
this kind of stuff. It's a case

995
01:02:13,259 --> 01:02:16,409
that I do find fascinating. What
do you think?

996
01:02:16,710 --> 01:02:20,400
John Greenewald: Yeah, well, I
interviewed Randall Nickerson on

997
01:02:20,430 --> 01:02:22,950
this channel for those who
aren't aware of the videos

998
01:02:22,950 --> 01:02:27,780
there. And, to my surprise,
before I and I'll make it quick,

999
01:02:27,780 --> 01:02:30,420
because I don't want to keep you
too long. To my surprise, a lot

1000
01:02:30,420 --> 01:02:35,040
of people were so surprised I
did the show. And that I took

1001
01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:38,610
that a little bit to heart. I'm
like, why? And because like you

1002
01:02:38,610 --> 01:02:41,610
said, it's not necessarily
something that, you know, we

1003
01:02:41,610 --> 01:02:46,170
jump all over, I was drawn to
the way that Randall did the

1004
01:02:46,170 --> 01:02:49,650
documentary, and it was about
the personal journey of somebody

1005
01:02:49,650 --> 01:02:53,130
going back that was one of the
school children and the journey

1006
01:02:53,130 --> 01:02:56,970
going back. And look, I'm not
here to say yes, it was an alien

1007
01:02:56,970 --> 01:03:00,120
craft. And I'm not here to say I
know exactly what it was. I'm

1008
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:05,340
not here to say anything other
than it was so evident that I

1009
01:03:05,340 --> 01:03:09,060
don't believe she was acting.
And it was so evident that it

1010
01:03:09,090 --> 01:03:12,660
affected her in such a way that
this was a big deal to not only

1011
01:03:12,660 --> 01:03:16,680
her, but others. And I'm drawn
to stories like that the the

1012
01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:22,260
emotion and the the toll that
that experience took whatever it

1013
01:03:22,260 --> 01:03:28,980
may be, is so palpable that, you
know, who am I to say that that

1014
01:03:28,980 --> 01:03:32,700
didn't happen to them? Am I a
hardcore evidence guy?

1015
01:03:32,730 --> 01:03:35,970
Absolutely. Do I question
everything? Absolutely. But am I

1016
01:03:35,970 --> 01:03:41,640
going to sit here from my chair
and tell the the girl and or the

1017
01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:45,360
director that traveled back and
re experience some of that and

1018
01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:47,730
talk to the people that were
there? What they experienced?

1019
01:03:47,760 --> 01:03:51,150
No, I'm not going to pretend to
do that. So I'm fascinated, I

1020
01:03:51,150 --> 01:03:54,570
recommended to my audience, then
and I'll do it again. Now see,

1021
01:03:54,570 --> 01:03:57,480
Randles documentary and I'd love
to meet him in person I never

1022
01:03:57,480 --> 01:04:01,650
have I see he's going to be at
your event. I just recommend

1023
01:04:01,650 --> 01:04:04,470
people look at it. You don't you
don't need to walk away thinking

1024
01:04:04,470 --> 01:04:07,680
that an alien spaceship landed
to these children, but rather

1025
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:11,850
look at the emotional toll, you
know, and that's what a lot of

1026
01:04:12,120 --> 01:04:16,200
live events showed me also is
that there's a different element

1027
01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:19,710
here that you don't get on
social media, or Twitter or you

1028
01:04:19,710 --> 01:04:23,670
know, whatever medium that a lot
of us communicate, and you don't

1029
01:04:23,670 --> 01:04:26,490
get the human element, right. I
mean, it's one thing to just

1030
01:04:26,490 --> 01:04:30,030
type on our computer and give
our experience out there. It's

1031
01:04:30,030 --> 01:04:32,400
another way to do it in a
YouTube video get a little bit

1032
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:36,930
more interaction, but to see
somebody in person, it gives a

1033
01:04:36,930 --> 01:04:39,930
whole new element again, it's
not an endorsement and it

1034
01:04:39,930 --> 01:04:42,630
doesn't mean it actually
happened. But it's a totally

1035
01:04:42,630 --> 01:04:45,990
different element that you just
don't get elsewhere. So that's

1036
01:04:45,990 --> 01:04:49,170
why I love it. And I kicked
myself that I'm not able to

1037
01:04:49,170 --> 01:04:53,010
travel like I used to be years
ago, just with two kids and a

1038
01:04:53,010 --> 01:04:53,520
family.

1039
01:04:53,940 --> 01:04:56,340
Alejandro Rojas: We've been
asking you every year for years

1040
01:04:56,340 --> 01:05:00,090
now. I know parents been asking
can you get John to come and I

1041
01:05:00,090 --> 01:05:03,060
know you're you're busy, you got
kids. So we

1042
01:05:04,020 --> 01:05:06,990
John Greenewald: please know
that it was not for a lack of

1043
01:05:06,990 --> 01:05:12,180
interest, it was just being
unable to travel. And yeah, and

1044
01:05:12,180 --> 01:05:15,420
trust me, it makes me upset
because I really do like it.

1045
01:05:15,420 --> 01:05:18,450
And, and for those who haven't
done it, I'm gonna say it again

1046
01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:23,190
go. It is a wide ranging
audience you're going to find

1047
01:05:23,190 --> 01:05:26,730
everywhere from former military
and government personnel

1048
01:05:26,730 --> 01:05:29,580
interested in the hardcore facts
that likely a majority of this

1049
01:05:29,580 --> 01:05:33,360
audience watching right now is
and then you also get a more

1050
01:05:33,630 --> 01:05:37,410
spiritual aspect to some of the
presentations. And I don't mean

1051
01:05:37,410 --> 01:05:41,370
that in a bad way, but but
rather just a much different

1052
01:05:41,370 --> 01:05:46,140
approach, but one that other
people will be drawn to. So it's

1053
01:05:47,250 --> 01:05:50,760
something I recommend.
Absolutely. So I wish you guys

1054
01:05:50,760 --> 01:05:53,580
the best of luck next week. I
wish I could be there. If I can

1055
01:05:53,580 --> 01:05:57,600
sneak away. I will. I don't
think I'll be able to, but I'll

1056
01:05:57,600 --> 01:05:59,010
be thinking of you guys.

1057
01:06:00,600 --> 01:06:03,000
Alejandro Rojas: Yeah, well,
thank you very much. Sure. Yeah,

1058
01:06:03,030 --> 01:06:07,320
remember black vote for that
coupon? It's UFO congress.com.

1059
01:06:07,530 --> 01:06:10,050
And a lot of people for some
reason want to know what I feel

1060
01:06:10,050 --> 01:06:14,190
about Lazar. I do not believe
Bob Lazar. I think it's another

1061
01:06:14,190 --> 01:06:17,340
topic. But there's a huge
amount, I think of evidence that

1062
01:06:17,340 --> 01:06:23,550
shows that there is that the
story has not been consistent,

1063
01:06:23,550 --> 01:06:28,140
or there's major question marks
there. But and I seem to come

1064
01:06:28,140 --> 01:06:31,110
across more information on a
regular basis, even in this last

1065
01:06:31,110 --> 01:06:32,730
week that supports that.

1066
01:06:33,930 --> 01:06:38,580
John Greenewald: i There's a lot
to talk about. So yeah, I you

1067
01:06:38,580 --> 01:06:40,920
have to come back on. I
appreciate you doing this. For

1068
01:06:40,920 --> 01:06:44,130
those who are watching the
behind the scenes. This was kind

1069
01:06:44,130 --> 01:06:47,310
of a fun addition, in the middle
of one of those shows. If you're

1070
01:06:47,310 --> 01:06:49,680
watching just the pier
interview, just know this was on

1071
01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:51,930
the behind the scenes show. So
if you haven't seen one of

1072
01:06:51,930 --> 01:06:54,690
those, make sure you tune in,
they're a lot of fun. And people

1073
01:06:55,140 --> 01:06:57,600
get a kick out of that being
able to ask a question while I

1074
01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:00,810
do these shows live. So thanks
for being a good sport with that

1075
01:07:00,810 --> 01:07:03,900
you're the first guest that I've
ever had do that in show number

1076
01:07:03,900 --> 01:07:07,230
12 for for the behind the
scenes. So hopefully you didn't

1077
01:07:07,230 --> 01:07:09,720
mind just kind of logging in and
being live

1078
01:07:09,750 --> 01:07:12,180
Alejandro Rojas: now. That's
thanks. Thank you so much for

1079
01:07:12,180 --> 01:07:16,830
having me. Of course, it's a lot
of fun. And, again, apologize

1080
01:07:16,830 --> 01:07:19,980
for jumping all over red panda.
I'm just so excited about what

1081
01:07:19,980 --> 01:07:22,650
we're doing with Enigma net
labs. And it's always

1082
01:07:22,650 --> 01:07:25,320
disappointing when there's
already people trying to spread

1083
01:07:25,320 --> 01:07:27,450
some negative when you don't
even know what we're up to yet.

1084
01:07:28,319 --> 01:07:30,269
John Greenewald: Other people
not red panda, I don't think he

1085
01:07:30,269 --> 01:07:34,739
was spreading the name. One
thing, though, before I let you

1086
01:07:34,739 --> 01:07:39,779
go the website for a neighbor
labs have not done a nick bell

1087
01:07:39,780 --> 01:07:45,060
Alejandro Rojas: labs.io and
then S EU is explorer fcu.org.

1088
01:07:45,060 --> 01:07:48,240
But yeah, I make my labs that I
owe. That's where all the cool

1089
01:07:48,390 --> 01:07:51,060
new tech companies are using.
And then Congress of course, one

1090
01:07:51,060 --> 01:07:52,860
more time UFO congress.com.

1091
01:07:53,640 --> 01:07:55,650
John Greenewald: Awesome. So
Alejandro, thank you so much for

1092
01:07:55,650 --> 01:07:59,160
joining me. I really appreciate
it. You guys take care of next

1093
01:07:59,160 --> 01:08:02,430
week. Have a great time at the
conference. And thank you all

1094
01:08:02,550 --> 01:08:06,240
for listening and watching. If
you can, if you're watching you

1095
01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:08,550
like this show, please give a
thumbs up on the YouTube

1096
01:08:08,550 --> 01:08:10,800
channel. Make sure you're
subscribed. If you're listening

1097
01:08:10,800 --> 01:08:14,340
to the audio podcast version.
Just know that all of these are

1098
01:08:14,340 --> 01:08:19,470
generally broadcast live or in
video form at www dot the black

1099
01:08:19,470 --> 01:08:23,880
vault.com/live That will get you
to the YouTube channel. No

1100
01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:26,070
matter how you're watching or
listening. Please make sure

1101
01:08:26,070 --> 01:08:30,000
again, add those reviews thumbs
up Share, like all that good

1102
01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:33,060
stuff. It really is a big help.
This is John Greenewald Jr

1103
01:08:33,060 --> 01:08:34,890
signing off, and we'll see you
next time.